Note to CNS: Oops !!! —— "Chant may gain traction under new missal"
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    Misrepresenting one side's case and/or creating a "straw man" to knock down is never a pretty sight.

    One typical example these days would be folks who falsely claim that "the Church opposes stem cell research." That's false. The Catholic Church supports ADULT stem cell research, but opposes EMBRYONIC stem cell research that kills innocent life.

    A recent article by CNS makes a number of regrettable statements. It might be worthwhile for our CMAA people to write to them, asking them to correct the online article (to save some embarrassment).

    Here is one instance (of many):

    In liturgical terms, "proper" refers to texts used for a particular day, feast or rite. Each Mass includes verses from Scripture as entrance antiphon and Communion antiphons. However, in current U.S. practice, they are most often used when there is no music for the Mass -- and even then not always included -- and, when included, almost always recited.


    In the context of the argument (see below) this statement is regrettable on numerous levels.

    The legitimate Catholic musician doesn't really give a hoot about the Missal Propers, since those are only used for spoken Masses (on this subject, see these articles).

    What we are concerned with, and have been for many years (read Caecilia!), are the Propers of the Graduale Romanum.

    These Graduale Propers are . . . simply not to be dismissed. They constitute one of THE MOST ANCIENT, SENSATIONAL, and AMAZING parts of the Mass.

    The antiquity of the Graduale Propers is . . . simply astounding. The way they have been treated and revered by the Catholic Church over the centuries is . . . simply stupefying. The Graduale Propers have been set by the Church for so many centuries in such beautiful, unthinkably wonderful ways. They are treasures. The texts have often been chosen with great care, proving beyond a shadow of a doubt how well Catholics of old knew the Bible. The idea that it should be a normal thing to simply TOSS OUT THE PROPERS and replace them with all kinds of other things ought to be challenged.

    Folks who toss them out on a regular basis should be made to explain WHY they are tossing them out . . . WHY they are replacing them on a regular basis. Folks who ELIMINATE (on a regular basis) these holy, wonderful, ancient, exciting, phenomenal, stupendous prayers should be made to explain the REASONS why they are replacing the official melodies of the Catholic Church (found in the Graduale Romanum), which the Church has carefully assigned to each Mass. Then there is the whole question of WHAT they replace them with!!! (Oh, boy . . . we better not go there!)

    The legitimate Catholic choirmaster honors not only the INTROIT or COMMUNION, but all of the Propers (Introit, Gradual, Alleluia Verse, Offertory, Communion, Tract, etc.)

    I don't have time to mention the other regrettable statements found in the article. For instance, it says:

    The CMAA has already published a book of English chants for schola use with sales of 1,400 copies . . . That figure would be dwarfed, though, by the number of copies of a hymnal like "Worship" or "Gather Comprehensive" in the pew racks of just a couple of large suburban parishes.


    Well . . . duh !!!! The SEP is not a book for the congregation !!!

    That statement is analogous to saying, "It doesn't seem like altar Missals are as important as the disposable hand missalettes . . . sources say that missalette sales are 5,000 times as numerous as altar Missal sales."

    Or, that would be similar to saying, "It would seem as though patients are more important than doctors . . . after all, sources have confirmed that there are more patients in the world than doctors."

    Comparing sales of the BRAND new book (SEP) to sales of pew books FOR THE CONGREGATION that have been out for years makes absolutely no sense!!!

    I would suggest that much better questions would be: "What does the CHURCH want us to do? What will lead to the most prayerful result in our worship? What prayers and chants has the CHURCH assigned? Where do they come from? What can we do to help us all become saints? What can we do to give Jesus Christ glory and honor? Etc."

    Anyone who has seen (for example) beautiful sacred art from the Renaissance understands the powerful effect that BEAUTY can have on the liturgy. A good question might be, "How can beautiful music add to our prayerful experience at Mass?"

    I wish to echo Tucker's statement in the article: study the Propers. Give them a chance. Many of us have dedicated years and years to studying them, singing them, learning their history, looking at manuscripts, etc. If you pray and learn about this sacred prayers, you will NOT be disappointed. They are treasures, waiting to be prayed, sung, and loved !!! They BELONG in the Mass. The Church has composed them and placed them there over many, many centuries. WHY ON EARTH should it be normal to toss them out? My strong suspicion is that most Catholics don't have the faintest notion of what the Propers are.

    WASHINGTON (CNS) -- Although the new General Instruction of the Roman Missal has eliminated the use of the word "song" from the General Instruction promulgated just eight years earlier in favor of the word "chant," don't be so quick to ditch those hymnals. The hymns that have been part and parcel of Catholic worship are likely to continue for some time to come. "Our interpretation of 'chant' is in using the word 'chant' in a generic way, a translation of (the Latin) 'cantus,' 'that which is sung," said Father Richard Hilgartner, executive director of the U.S. bishops' Secretariat for Divine Worship. When the church uses "chant" in the General Instruction, Father Hilgartner told Catholic News Service, it is "really talking about what texts are sung, not the musical form." Of course, tell that to the blogosphere, home of rhetorical volleys back and forth on every issue, the new General Instruction included. "If it weren't for the blogosphere, we wouldn't be having this conversation," Father Hilgartner told CNS. "We'd just be going about our work." On Nov. 27, the first Sunday of Advent, the new English translation of the third edition of the Roman Missal will begin to be used parishes in the United States, Canada and other English-speaking countries. "It's a very hot topic right now in the Catholic blogosphere," said Jerry Galipeau, associate publisher at World Library Publications in the Chicago suburb of Franklin Park, Ill., and himself a liturgical music composer and a blogger on liturgical issues. "There's a camp that's becoming entrenched, (saying) that the proper antiphons that are found in the missal are as essential to the liturgy as the reading, and no one would ever replace the proper antiphons with something else." In liturgical terms, "proper" refers to texts used for a particular day, feast or rite. Each Mass includes verses from Scripture as entrance antiphon and Communion antiphons. However, in current U.S. practice, they are most often used when there is no music for the Mass -- and even then not always included -- and, when included, almost always recited. "It has been kind of been under the radar, it's ebbed and flowed in history. Mass propers have been staples since the seventh century," said Jeffrey Tucker, a proponent for the use of chant with the new missal. Tucker, who sings in a schola in Auburn, Ala., is a blogger, assistant editor of the journal Sacred Music, and publications director of the Church Music Association of America, a group Galipeau called "small but loud." After the Second Vatican Council in 1963 permitted the Mass to be celebrated in the vernacular, "there was a lot of confusion that followed," Tucker said. "Pretty much there has been no effort (regarding chanted antiphons) in this direction since 1963 in the Catholic world." How music is used at Mass has evolved since Vatican II, according to Galipeau. He identified the 1970s as "when the terminology of the 'four-hymn syndrome' began to be challenged. Basically, it was 'Music in Catholic Worship,' the (U.S.) bishops' first document on music after the council, that said it's the acclamations at the Mass that have the priority -- the Holy, the Eucharistic Acclamation. Instead of singing four hymns at Mass, we need to change our thought completely and sing the Mass." Father Hilgartner gave an example of how an antiphon could be interpreted musically. "If the antiphon that's printed in the missal is Psalm 23, 'The Lord is my shepherd,' a legitimate use would be 'The King of Love My Shepherd Is,' which is a hymn." He added that at the Mass he celebrated earlier in the day of his CNS interview, "I used 'Where Charity and Love Prevail.' It's chant, but it's a hymn. There are those who want to turn this into a battle between chanted antiphons and strophic hymnody," but the new General Instruction is "not that restrictive." Tucker said the Church Music Association of America has already published a book of English chants for schola use with sales of 1,400 copies, "which by any standard is a best-seller." That figure would be dwarfed, though, by the number of copies of a hymnal like "Worship" or "Gather Comprehensive" in the pew racks of just a couple of large suburban parishes. Galipeau, in a July 11 post in his "Gotta Sing Gotta Pray" blog, said that at his majority-black Chicago parish, "I just don't think this whole argument about the singing of the propers will ever amount to a hill of beans to these parish people. The people have grown accustomed to singing hymns and songs at the entrance and at Communion from a wide variety of traditions. ... A different antiphon every single Sunday might be a bit too challenging for Catholics." Tucker, in a July 13 post on his "Chant Cafe" blog, said that from his experiences with using chanted antiphons as Mass, "the people in the pews don't rush up after Mass and say, 'What a fantastic performance today, that was just what I needed!' Instead, they find themselves thinking and praying through the performers and through the music toward eternity. ... All we are saying is give propers a chance." Chant has a legitimate place in Catholic worship, Father Hilgartner said, but "there's room for other legitimate cultural adaptations, which includes the form that music for liturgy takes." He added the word "song" was removed from the new General Instruction of the Roman Missal because "it sounds secular, even when it's preceded by 'liturgical.'" And what, if anything, preceded chant? "Likely, it was hymnody because it was memorable," Father Hilgartner said. "St. Paul does that whole great hymn to Christ -- 'though he was in the form of God.' Is that early hymnody? Is that used liturgically? We don't really know. As one of my liturgy professors used to say, we've lost the videotape." URL link
  • Go to PTB for further agitation.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 9,885
    "Chant may gain traction under new missal"

    Dream on! I think this is wishful thinking. In my area, the other churches will continue to do as they please, and my parish will make an effort to do what we are supposed to do. I expect that, nationally, the pattern will be the same. A parish here or there that cares about tradition, will do chant. Like us, they are probably using it anyway. The rest will continue with what they are doing.
  • CharlesW, I think you are wrong. something important is changing, and it is affecting ever more parishes.
  • Jeffrey, I rarely disagree with you, but the area that Charles is talking about is a backwater with but a few shining lights as far as priests who are able to introduce change, though there are those who understand what changes are needed and would like to but are thwarted by pressure from fellow clergy.

    Having observed 5 pickup trucks with blowing horns waiting for a stoplight to change, their truck beds filled to overflowing with screaming young people waving rebel flags and headed into a Black neighborhood day before yesterday, I doubt that much change is possible here.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    I'm on Jeff T's side in this. The missal change is monumental. For the first time in decades, EVERY church in the country MUST use a whole new Mass ordinary. And you really have to justify your choice - there's no more falling back on Mass of Creation because "that's what we've always done." Does that kind of stuff stand on its own merits? It's debatable, but I think most people would not voluntarily choose it. Also, for the first time in decades, CHANT will be easily available to nearly every parish. You can't even ignore it, because as ordinarily people follow with curiosity the new translation, they will ask their parish musician why the notes in the Order of Mass "look so different from the notes we sing."

    Chant isn't going to spontaneously happen all over the world, but this is the best time in 1500 years (I assert this without hyperbole) to introduce chant - the conditions couldn't be better!
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 4,089
    Gavin ... how true!
  • Gavin is right. Arlene and I discovered that this weekend at a workshop in Lansing. We sang the Missal chants and the SEP, and ended with ONE piece of Latin chant (which left an incredible impression). Folks, do you realize that we didn't have these tools before? We used to go into parishes wielding the Graduale Romanum and that was all. We had no official books other than that, and while it made for great continuing education efforts, we could make very little progress in the real world this way. Now we have the Missal chants. This is HUGE!! And now we have a way to sing the propers in a way that improves on the current practice and doesn't totally disrupt parish culture. Again, one year ago, we did not have these tools. This is gigantic. I do not believe that there is a single parish that will eventually be unchanged by this. And this prediction applies MORE to the poor, small parishes than the big cathedrals. To me that biggest problem spots will be those places where quality music is confused with spending vast amounts of money on orchestras and sheet music.
  • Because of the push by the archdiocesan Office of Divine Worship to use them, Boston might be an indicator of whether the missal chants will fly. Knowing the terrain, I'm skeptical simply because there are too few priests and music directors with any sort of cultivated chant background. Admittedly, there have been small inroads in isolated parishes but those instances only seem to confirm my suspicions. I do hope I'm wrong.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    "And this prediction applies MORE to the poor, small parishes than the big cathedrals."

    I wish to concur with this! Having worked in a rural small parish at my last job, I found large (or even small) anthems rather daunting. But the choir there ably picked up simple chanting and did a beautiful job with it. Same with the congregation. I truly believe that Gregorian chant has all the qualities that people ascribe to "religious folk music": it's simple, reflective of the culture of the community (Western, Roman, Catholic), enjoyable, and easy.

    I'm sorry to hear I missed the Lansing workshop! I was hoping to attend with a colleague, but I'm in the process of a costly move, and frankly lost track of time.
  • Here's the key as I see it. We mostly just pretend that parishes have musicians who know something about the rite and can sing something. i seriously doubt that either is true. The musicians in most parishes have never really sung anything. They have been doing a halting and shy sort of karaoke for decades, making mild efforts to add a text to what the pianist does. They eke out some stuff that seems fine and call it a day. They are completely unknowing of any aspects of the Roman rite and its musical dimension. Why? Because this has pretty much been the way things are done and there were few tools to do anything else. It was either this - or the Graduale Romanum, a book that 99.9% of Catholic musicians have never heard of.

    Now, with the Missal chants and the resources for propers, we have actual tools, and for the first time in 40-50 years! going into parishes, we can first explain what ritual music is and does. Suddenly the musicians get interested. They have a role. What they do matters. Wow. Then we can give them official chants and supplemental propers, and invite them to use their voices to make music in service of the actual liturgy. To do this for the first time is absolutely incredible. It feels like flying. From a human psychological point of view, this changes everything. This Missal chants are empowering like nothing we've ever had. I would same the same of the SEP.

    It really is a new day.
  • "We mostly just pretend that parishes have musicians who know something about the rite and can sing something. i seriously doubt that either is true. The musicians in most parishes have never really sung anything."

    Exactly.
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 1,490
    "Gregorian chant has all the qualities that people ascribe to "religious folk music":"
    FWIW, I was speaking to somebody yesterday who is music advisor to his diocese, and he had been asked where one could get guitar chords for the missal chants.
  • Okay, good Charles, hold onto your hat (and Adam B., you'll love THIS!)
    As I mentioned weeks ago our schola waded into SEP without rehearsal as I couldn't duplicate the choral propers. After my first colloquium and bringing home a full set of PBC's, they mostly balked at four lines/square notes. But with full immersion, no rehearsal, and now years of chanting Bruce's/Richard's stuff, they know the groove, the schola is fully vested in SEP, no problemo.
    It gets better-
    We've changed Mass schedules in our four parish cluster, so we have hour intervals rather than half as before. So, after schola Mass is "ensemble Mass." (Y'all come sing folks.) However, I have some really dedicated double members who sing both Masses every Sunday. So, with the extra time, I asked my non-reading and reading members of ensemble, "Hey, you guys wanna try singing these proper chants at Entrance and Communion?" "Sure." Again, no serious theoretical instruction, just follow the arc of the neumes and text and keep 'em flowing. Phrase by phrase, slowly we turned, inch by inch.....Guess who chanted the Introit and Communio at the FOLK MASS?!? Yup, the ensemble. Unaccompanied. It was, thank you Lawrence Welk, "wunnerful, jes wunnerful!"
    What other proof do we need that SEP and its direct ancestors (the Fords' books, Richard's stuff, Arlene's stuff et al) is a GAME CHANGER.
    What IS important is to take heed of MaryAnn's admonition: remember that we are praying these chants! This is not some strategical ploy or academic exercize, it's prayer. So, our demeanor as we represent "the paradigm" to the PIPs is just as important as the precision and beauty we strive for.
    English chant in the U.S. may be a "both/and" as far as a terminal chant form, or a gateway to the real McCoy chants in Latin. But in any case, I'd bet my quarter on the "gaining foothold" increasing.
  • CharlesW and I may seem negative but:

    3. How does Co-Workers in the Vineyard of the Lord encourage the formation of music ministers?

    This resource document, issued by the USCCB in 2005, offers pastoral and theological reflections on the reality
    of lay ecclesial ministers, affirming those who serve and encouraging their ongoing development. Page 12 of the
    document notes: “Their functions of collaboration with the ordained require of lay ecclesial ministers a special
    level of professional competence and presence to the community.”

    Co-Workers in the Vineyard of the Lord identifies four areas where specific attention should be given to the
    formation process: human, spiritual, intellectual, and pastoral. One aspect of the formation process is that of the
    academic formation. The document suggests that a master’s degree or, at least, a bachelor’s degree in an
    appropriate field of study is appropriate.
    If a degree is not possible, then the lay ecclesial minister is called to
    seek out the various formation opportunities that are available: local diocesan courses or study days, educational
    partnerships among dioceses, programs from academic institutions, online programs, and programs sponsored by
    various national organizations.



    The diocese we live in is headed by music director who has proudly stated in the past that she does not read music.
  • Noel, "...seem negative???"
    I believe that most of us who know you and your diocesan situation are quite aware of this inexplicable, wholly unacceptable circumstance in TN. But the ties to the topic thread and the documentation and attendent ignorance by your diocesan authorities is tenuous at best. That is an ecclesial issue, not explicitly a liturgical issue tied to the recovery of chant as normative in the U.S. of A.
    Noel, we are now our grandparents, fogey's R us. It is time for us to consider the lillies, rather than to focus on ecclesial Gehennas stinking up the perimeters, shake the muck and dust off, and move on.
    How can one seem negative when we have as pied pipers "Bartlett's, Wood's, Ostrowski's, Esguerra's, Aquino's et al" leading us to our Emerald City?
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 9,885
    Hey, I wouldn't mind being proven wrong on this one at all. My parish is about the only one in town that does chant, to begin with. However, I am well aware that the Mass of Creation has been revised. It won't disappear anytime soon, I think. All the masses you have hated for years will still be around to torment you.

    As for my place, we begin with the English chants from the missal in mid-September. At some point, we will have to learn the dreaded Missa Luna before the bishop visits in the spring. I am thinking English chant through Christmas, with a grand Latin Gloria for midnight mass. Missa Luna for a month after Christmas ends, then shifting into a Latin chant mass for Lent. Easter, we resurrect Missa Luna in time for the bishop's visit for confirmation. Summer, maybe back to English chant. Advent a year from now, we are free to buy new mass settings.
  • The initial CNS quote posted by Jeff accurately describes the directives we received:
    1. that the word "chant" does not mean chant.
    2. No one really bothers with propers,
    3. vernacular chant is scarce
    4. Though there are other options, hymnody is the practice in the U.S.
    5 Participation is most important
    I have the strongest objection to #1. It seems deconstructive to be already redefining this word "chant" (changed from the 2002 ed.) of this more authentic translation.
    Perhaps this is to refute expanded meaning of the phrase "active participation" as being both internal and external. actuoso
    So is there a dialectic implied here which assumes that chanting the propers of the Graduale opposes "active" participation?

    I have no objection with congregational singing as an important expression of "active participation." If necessary this can be done with the Graduale by providing an easier congregational refrain to alternate with the proper antiphon and verses.

    The Gradual also provides an accepbtle benchmark for our skills at musicianship and performance, it educatues us and forms us spirtually, yet as I know it can accept the smallest
    talent. The congregation needs to be kept in the loop when it comes to propers.
  • When the church lists requirements for the training of church musicians who are the people who actually decide what music is going to be sung and a diocese totally ignores the instruction you get musicians who are this person:

    The legitimate Catholic musician doesn't really give a hoot about the Missal Propers, since those are only used for spoken Masses.

    The thread is there.

    Lack of understanding of the church's goals as far of music goes goes hand in hand with a lack of education.

    These are illegitimate Catholic musicians, not legitimate ones.
  • FWIW, I was speaking to somebody yesterday who is music advisor to his diocese, and he had been asked where one could get guitar chords for the missal chants.

    You did tell him about the ones with simple keyboard parts and guitar chords I have posted at www.basicchant.com?

    After all...HE WANTS TO DO CHANT!
  • Mike R
    Posts: 106
    While I do think chant is going to continue increasing its presence, I have to agree with CharlesW here. I'm simply not seeing it anywhere in my diocese, or any nearby. A handful of parishes may "try" the missal chants, but once they hear how funereal they sound in a parish that hasn't sung chant in 60 years, they'll dump them. It is OCP country here, and except for one parish that is starting to use the SEP, a couple other "conservative" parishes that use WLP, and the one "liberal" parish that uses Gather, everyone is just renewing their Breaking Bread subscriptions and the best we will hear is Mass of Redemption. My bet is that the majority of parishes will just use the revised Mass of Creation.

    While I applaud the CMAA's efforts to promote chant, I really wish there were a more balanced approach for promoting good music in rural dioceses where the people DO NOT want to change. The Vatican II Hymnal and Simple English Propers are great (and I personally love the St. Michael Hymnal), but there isn't even a single parish in our whole diocese that will have something as "traditional" as Worship IV! I feel like "baby steps" to most of the folks here means starting with English chant so we can eventually get back to Latin chant. This approach makes us mostly ignored in the vast majority of parishes who really need to start out just vanquishing all the "hymns" with bad theology. GIA is rightfully demonized in many respects, but at least Worship IV will be head and shoulders better than anything OCP puts out, and outside of the large urban dioceses, OCP is almost ubiquitous. Parishes are more likely to still have copies of Glory and Praise sitting around than to have ever seen a Worship hymnal.
  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,063
    In two dioceses that I have been in in the last year, chant is an openly discussed and considered question. In my 25+ years of serving Catholic parishes, I have never seen the ground so open to chant as it is now. Sure, the missions near where I work are still stuck in the 1970's, but there is movement. So I have great hope, even for those of us who live in the southern regions of the US. Ongoing training is necessary and where places receive it, a difference is being made.

    The bigger problem that I see is the great divide between the clerics ordained in the 60s and 70s and those being ordained now. The collision course is inevitable and I am even watching it in my own place. It is at once sad and yet necessary. The older men are having a hard time with these changes and see no value to it, thus making the discussion about chant and other liturgical matters difficult. We are so factionalized in these discussions. It is heart-breaking.
  • dad29
    Posts: 1,685
    We mostly just pretend that parishes have musicians who know something about the rite and can sing something. i seriously doubt that either is true. The musicians in most parishes have never really sung anything. They have been doing a halting and shy sort of karaoke for decades, making mild efforts to add a text to what the pianist does. They eke out some stuff that seems fine and call it a day. They are completely unknowing of any aspects of the Roman rite and its musical dimension. Why? Because this has pretty much been the way things are done and there were few tools to do anything else. It was either this - or the Graduale Romanum, a book that 99.9% of Catholic musicians have never heard of.

    So good that it should be said twice!!

    A legitimate indictment and very sad, indeed.
  • dad29
    Posts: 1,685
    It was, thank you Lawrence Welk...

    Bet you didn't know that a Milwaukee musician (from a church-music family) taught Welk how to play the accordion, eh?
  • dad29
    Posts: 1,685
    The document suggests that a master’s degree or, at least, a bachelor’s degree in an
    appropriate field of study is appropriate. If a degree is not possible, then the lay ecclesial minister is called to seek out the various formation opportunities that are available...


    Cuts both ways, by the way. There are lots of knowledgeable folks--REALLY knowledgeable--who do not have a degree in choichmusic, nor "liturgical studies." Granted, they are not common, but....

    Baby/bathwater.
  • Dad, I can name that tune in two notes: Paul Salamunovich (whom I'm sure had a bachelors at least, as if that mattered)
  • I would add two things to the discussion, and then a praise to God.

    One is that this has opened up some new things I need to add to my guide for the panicked, clueless, volunteer music director--it's informative, but it doesn't make it any easier to sort through.

    Two is that I think we should get away from the idea that the new GIRM is a new translation. All valid arguments aside, if we simply take "cantus" at its basic meaning, "singing," then what the GIRM says is "other singing whose text is authorized by the Conference of Bishops." In the Latin Girm, there are only two slots for music--the Graduals, or what the bishops authorize. The English GIRM now has four specific things, all of them called "chant."

    I would say then that it was wrong to appeal to the Latin text when the 'song" people had the upper hand, and wrong to appeal to it now that our bishops say, "chant."

    What is relevant is what the bishops wrote IN ENGLISH, and now they say Chant--IN ENGLISH. End of discussion.

    A third point, I guess, and this is a convert who knows the rules speaking: According to the Motu Proprio Apostolos Suos, Canon Law provides no authorization for the creation of "Little Vaticans." I.e., the staff of the Conference has no canonic status. There is just joint action by the Conference (meaning Bishops), and discipline by each Bishop individually.

    Which leads to the praise to God. Thank the Lord we live in the US, where, as everyone has pointed out at least since Tocqueville, volunteering is such an intrinsic part of the culture. Given that he in fact has no canonic status, it is the height of something not very nice for the director of the USCCB Office on the Liturgy to say that "if it weren't for the blogs, we would just be doing our job."

    Thank Heaven Americans hate to be told to sit down and be quiet.

    Stictly speaking, His Divine Right on 4th Street--literally a stone's throw from my office--has no job to do. I agree with Jeff that something big seems to be afoot--you have to be around kids a lot to sense it, I think, or at least it helps.

    But if it were up to our betters, we would sit down and be quiet and the Church would suffer. But we aren't. Some dioceses are doing well, some are doing badly, but American Catholics are being American. And blessings to everyone, but especially Jeff and Arlene, for going into parishes and teaching people.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 9,885
    I am reminded of something my current pastor said after Vatican II. He said, "The priests who have been butchering the mass in Latin, will now butcher it even worse in English." He was right, of course. It seems to me that it is also true that those musicians who have done liturgical music badly over the years, will likely not change much because of the revised missal. In too many places, that missal is a non-event.

    I would like, as I mentioned above, to be proven wrong and have all parishes transform their music programs into something wonderful. But I think there is a real danger in associating with and listening to only those who agree with you. It causes you to think everyone shares your views and goals for restored/reformed church music. They don't.
  • I didn't mean that the Bishops said Chant in English, I mean they used the English word "chant" to say what they wanted to say.

    Kenneth
  • My beef with the CNS story (typical of most news) is its stubborn two-sidedness - it's either weird ("all-chant-all-the-time-crowd" / you know who) or normal ("congregation-is-king" /everybody else). There's no middle ground, no nuance, no compromise. The possibility that the propers could be introduced gradually, in English, keeping the entrance and closing hymns, for example, is never dreamed of. Since my parish has always done things a certain way, the propers will never amount to "a hill of beans" etc., etc. The typical reader is left with the story that there is a group out there determined to turn everything upside down based on their own quirky / fringe views, while the rest of us are wondering what all the fuss is about. Frustrating and sad.
  • Sam, you might check out the ordo in the CMAA Cornerstone thread.
  • dad29
    Posts: 1,685
    The typical reader is left with the story that there is a group out there determined to turn everything upside down based on their own quirky / fringe views,...

    Template journalism. Surprised that they didn't say Jeffrey is a Bible-thumping gun-clinger Dominionist, too.
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 1,490
    Rushdooney was a heretic.