OF Antiphonale: your feedback needed
  • smvanroodesmvanroode
    Posts: 995
    Today I started to layout the Psalter of the OF Liturgy of the Hours. So far, I only put together the antiphons and responsories for Sunday of the first week. Before I go any further, I would appreciate your input and feedback.

    - should the hymns be incorporated in the psalter, or should these be in a separate section?
    - should the versicles and responses of the Officium Lectionum and Horam Mediam be included?
    - should the (written) lectures, preces and orations be included?

    I'll await your suggestions and comments, and will adjust the layout accordingly before to typeset the remaining days of the psalter. Thank you in advance!

    Steven
    Antiphonale.pdf
    755K
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,189
    Steven, what an ambitious and wonderful project! I'm not in any position to provide anything other than appreciative feedback. But I do wonder if perhaps there might be at least two editions - one comprehensive edition (probably incorporating all of the items you mention), and one or more scaled back editions.

    Thank you for embarking on this huge undertaking.
  • Pedro d'Aquino
    Posts: 128
    A very ambitious project, indeed! Are you following the Ordo Cantus Officii (1983)? And will you be incorporating the changes made in the Antiphonale Romanum II to Vespers?

    I think the hymns should be integrated into the psalter, if possible, if only to avoid excess page turning. I am curious as to whether you will follow the Monastic Psalter with respect to the tones of the opening versicles and orations, etc. or the former Roman use. Also with respect to the evangelical canticles whether you will stick with the new Vulgate or revert to the traditional texts (as in AR-II).

    Best wishes on your holy endeavor!
  • Emmanuel Hermitage
    Posts: 3
    This is an excellent work, very helpful.

    I don't know how are you approaching it but you might want to start consistently with basics and then add to it -if that's possible. I mean you might want to add Hymns to every hour, or maybe keep it as it is in this sample and then add Hymns grouped for different Hours before or after the Psalter itself.

    I may be missing something but can't see the Antiphona 3 for the Canticle of II Vespers.

    Congratulations on your project, may God bless your work
  • SkirpRSkirpR
    Posts: 854
    I think the most helpful layout - and (for what it's worth) one to give your most excellent work credibility in the eyes of those reluctant or skeptical of chant - would be to follow the layout of the Liturgia Horarum books as closely as possible, simply providing musical notation where necessary.
  • smvanroodesmvanroode
    Posts: 995
    Thank you for your comments and suggestions! I decided to include the hymns in the Psalter. See this link for a new version, with all the chants for Sunday and Monday of the first week.

    @Pedro: Yes, I'm following the Ordo Cantus Officii closely. If the OCO doesn't provide music for an antiphon, I look at either the new Antiphonale Romanum, Les Heures Grégoriennes or Laus Divina for a substitute. I'm planning to include both translations of the Benedictus and Magnificat.

    @ Emmanuel: The OCO doesn't provide an antiphon for the canticle Salus et gloria: it's always sung "more responsoriali, cum Alleluia". I know the new Antiphonale Romanum does provide for an antiphon, but I stick to the OCO for this project, because the adaptations of the entire OCO haven't been made public yet.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,189
    This is simply splendid - something to treasure. I'm glad you've decided to include the hymns in the Psalter.
  • Marcel
    Posts: 13
    What is the "Laus Divina", which you mention between your sources?
  • smvanroodesmvanroode
    Posts: 995
    This is Frans Kok, Laus Divina, Proposta per un nuovo Antifonale Romano (Calithes, 2010).
  • Marcel
    Posts: 13
    What do you think of Laus Divina? Can you recommand it?
  • smvanroodesmvanroode
    Posts: 995
    I'd rather prefer the adapted Ordo Cantus Officii, but as long as this isn't published yet, Laus Divina is very helpful in finding replacements for the antiphons in the OCO that don't have any music assigned to it. And also, Laus Divina has references to manuscripts, with folio numbers, which is very handy to find the the actual chant in the manuscripts. So yes, for the time being, I can certainly recommend it!
  • Mark P.
    Posts: 248
    I know this is probably lame but why aren't the psalm tones included with the psalms? Are the psalms pointed so they can be sung? I apologize if this is self-evident but I'm not getting it.
  • smvanroodesmvanroode
    Posts: 995
    The psalm tones will be included in an appendix, very much like the monks of Solesmes do in their latest edition of the Antiphonale Monasticum. The reason that I don't include the psalm tone with the psalms in the four-week psalter, or point the psalms, is simple: There may be occurrences that a psalm is to be sung with a different antiphon of another mode (according to the Proper of Time, Proper of Saints or the Commons). It these cases it would be, of course, highly unfortunate if the psalm was pointed to a different tone.

    Please keep in mind that the Antiphonale published online is an unfinished edition: when completed (in a year or so, or two), it will have everything you need to sing the Liturgy of the Hours.

    The separate booklets, however, will be updated at some time, and I'm planning to include pointed psalms at least.
  • bgeorge77
    Posts: 190
    What would be the pros/cons of having the hymns in-line vs having them in their own section?
  • SkirpRSkirpR
    Posts: 854
    Well, I think for the Ordinary Time Psalter for Lauds, Vespers, and Office of Readings, there are almost no drawbacks to having them in-line. The benefit of course is avoiding flipping around in the book - which is always annoying and marginally distracting from prayer.

    The problem comes with the Daytime Hours and Compline, as the melodies of these hymns are different for weekdays, memorials, feasts, Sundays, and solemnities. Here, where they are in-line, you have to flip over the melodies you don't need anyway. And since these are generally the same for all days of the week, it is a waste of paper to reprint them for everyday. So, to me, these make sense placed either on the first day they occur and place references to that page further on - or as is done in the text-only Latin edition of the Liturgia Horarum, these hymns can be placed in the Ordinarium.
  • ossian1898ossian1898
    Posts: 142
    Your formatting is really nice. I think you should include the psalm tones and pointing for each psalm's regular tone, whatever it may be. It will increase it's usability 10 fold. Including psalm tones in the back will require a lot of unnecessary flipping and will be tough on the binding.
    Thanked by 1bgeorge77
  • RobertRobert
    Posts: 343
    "The reason that I don't include the psalm tone with the psalms in the four-week psalter, or point the psalms, is simple: There may be occurrences that a psalm is to be sung with a different antiphon of another mode (according to the Proper of Time, Proper of Saints or the Commons)."

    Would you consider the approach of the Liber Usualis - have a section containing all the necessary psalms pointed to the various tones. The proper antiphons could then have page references directing the singer to the appropriate psalm pointing.

    It would make for a less elegant, but more useful book. This would require some page flipping, but this is easier for most choirs than figuring out the psalm terminations on the fly, something which is not likely to work outside of monasteries where the psalms are sung often enough that the singers just develop an instinct for it.
  • SkirpRSkirpR
    Posts: 854
    In setting about my plan for doing an English (except for the antiphons) version of the Liturgy of the Hours for use with authentic chant melodies and tones, I don't see why it would be impossible to including pointed psalms. (As I said above, the pointing I believe is absolutely necessary with English.) The result would certainly be bulkier, but I don't believe there occur many situations where a proper antiphon does not have a specific, particular Psalm that can be expected to come under it. (Perhaps the only exception I could think of to this are the Daytime Hours). But proper antiphons at Lauds almost always take the Psalms & Canticle from Sunday, Week I which could then be inserted into the proper and pointed accordingly. Proper antiphons for Vespers almost always have their own proper Psalms & Canticle, or else refer to a singular Commons, which could also be inserted already pointed into the Proper. If memory serves, even the proper antiphons for December 17-24 are tied to the day of the week.
  • bgeorge77
    Posts: 190
    How is this project going?
  • smvanroodesmvanroode
    Posts: 995
    Thanks for asking. The project is currently not moving forward. Though most of the chants have already been typeset, putting together the entire book is upheld by more pressing projects (the Lumen Christi Missal, www.illuminarepublications.com, and the Klein Graduale, www.kleingraduale.nl). As these will probably be finished by the end of the summer and autumn respectively, I'm pretty confident that I can take up working on the Antiphonale by the start of Advent.
  • awilliamsawilliams
    Posts: 101
    Resurrecting an old post.

    I was just wondering how this project has been coming along. Also, do you intend to include the responsories for the Office of Readings? I have been having a difficult time finding them all.

    I have been considering purchasing Les Heures Grégoriennes but I may wait if you expect this to be ready within the year.

    Thanks,
    Aaron
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