With our growing Hispanic Catholic population, I was wondering what "traditional" Catholic music is there. I know OCP,GIAS and WLP have hymnals, but I am interested in knowing if a hymnal and service book which could be used for the Extraordinary Form. In l967 therre was a booklet put out by the Oblates from the Southwest caledd TESORO DE ALABANZAS which had devotional hymns of German, French and Spanish background. There was also the MISA COMUNITARIA by Fr. Arrondo and Danoz CssR. Any ideas?
Hi Jeff. Thank you for the information which I will use. However,I really am trying to trackdown a hymnal, but without muuch success! Apparently, no hynalsseemto to exist in either the USA or Latin America, except in museums!!! Other than the one i mentioned Tesoro de Alabanzas published by the Oblates of Mary Immaculate in San Antonio in 1967 era! This booklet had hymnsof French and German origins as wellas a few Mexican Franciscan Alabados!! I thinkthere was a St Joseph Mass and Hymnal in Spanish as well1965,but again can't find one anywhere!!
Here's a routine reminder: Write with future readers in mind.
this must be of recent time because I checked with La Buena Prensa but other than the missalette, there is little music. However, I will try again. Beleive it or not but the Lutherans, Methodist, and Episcopalian have some interesting music SATB settings with some hymns from Catholic sources!!!! So I have glemed them.!!
I would caution you regarding hymns and service music in Spanish. OCP is notorious for chopping up the Gloria in Spanish. There is one setting marked Tradicional and another Misa Popular that use a Gloria that is missing some major parts of it. The song, for lack of a better word, removes "Deux Rex celestei, Deus Pater omnípotens. Dómine Fili Unigénite, Iesu Christe, Dómine Deus, ..." and goes directly into the Lamb of God reference. It also deletes the final reference to Jesus Christ by name. Another setting, by Bob Hurd, is more along the lines of a responsorial Gloria, but, suprisingly, it is faithful to the text. I cannot say the same for his Agnus Dei because he doesn't separate the invocations.
As far as the hymns are concerned, the ones found in OCP are also very problematic because some of them have references to liberation theology (Pueblos Nuevos (Danos un Corazon) and others place undue emphasis on the community (Somos el Pueblo). Others are more along the lines of social justice and treat the liturgy and the Eucharist as after-thoughts (Amor de Dios, Ven al Banquete). The only two of the newer songs that comes close to being traditional is Fr. Schiavonne's 'Amen" and "Donde Hay Caridad y Amor" (used for Holy Thursday and for Communion).
There are traditional hymns like "Altisimo Senor", "Tu Reinaras", "Alabado Sea El Santissimo" and "Cantemos al Amor" that do work well. Some work very well for Communion: "Racimo y Trigal", "Un Mandamiento", "Amemonos de Corazon", "Una Espiga" and "Bendito, Bendito". The one hymn that I would avoid like the plague is "Pescador de los Hombres." This song is over-used down here for Communion, even though it has nothing at all to do with the Eucharist.
The sad part is that a lot of the music used on the Mexican side of the border is tinged with charismatic styles and Neocatechumenal genre. There are some parishes in Nuevo Laredo (I'm in Laredo) that use OCP stuff.
Of the psalms settings, the one who is probably the best composer is Manuel Garcia. His settings work well with either organ or guitar (not too fond of guitar, though). His works are found in the OCP catalogue.
Paul, with all due respect, how would that help if this comes from the Methodist catalogue and might very well contain songs that do not jibe with the Church's standards on liturgy?
Now, I admit that a lot of the stuff from OCP is questionable; unfortunately, until someone takes it upon himself to put forth a legitimate Spanish language hymnal, we have to contend with what is out there.
My diocese is 99.9% Mexican-American. By my reckoning, we might very well be the most Hispanic diocese in the country. We are also located along the Texas-Mexico border, so, we do get a lot of cross-traffic. The faithful from Nuevo Laredo will attend Mass on this side when they are visiting and vice-versa. We use the Mexican Episcopal Conferences' version of the Roman Missal because no such Sacramentary exists in the United States. In fact, I posed this question in 2003 to Msgr. Maroney as to why we don't have a Spanish-language Roman Missal of our own. He told me that it would be five years in the making. We are now in the tail quarter of 2008 and we don't have anything to show for it.
If the OP is going to use OCP, I would suggest going over the content with a fine-toothed comb and weeding out the questionable stuff. Look at the service music and compare it to what is found in the Mexican Roman MIssal. If the words are not the same, don't use the settings. If the Gloria is chopped up to the point that references fo Jesus Christ and God the Father are omitted, move on to the next one. I admit that it is cumbersome, but, we have to maintain a true Sensus Fidei.
I've tried but have had no luck ordering RESPONSORIAL HISPANOAMERICANO/CANTO GREGORIANO. While I found it at several e-commerce sites, I could not get the ordering utilities actually to work. Oh well!
That a list of resources for Spanish-language liturgical music compiled by the Methodists would be in any way more useful than available Catholic guides to such resources is indeed a pathetic and troubling state of affairs. I've worked as an assistant music director for a fairly large Spanish-language Mass for two years now and have experienced only silly secular-style music, and I know that this prevails throughout Central and South America. Is there literally ANY model to help guide American Hispanic communities away from the Flor y Canto musical world and toward chant and polyphony?
Several years ago on my last visit to central Mexico, I searched bookstores in Puebla and found one genuine, hardbound hymnal called "500 Cantos Para la Comunidad Cristiana," published in Mexico City by Librería Gerardo Mayela. Although the music is melody only and appears to have been handwritten, it is an extraordinarily helpful source of Spanish language hymnody. It contains both contemporary (think Cursillo, not Cesario Gabaraín) and traditional Mexican pieces, including service music which largely follows approved texts.
The Diocese of Ponce site was begun by the priest-musician, Monsignor Abel di Marco (originally Argentinian, hence the Italian name). It is a gigantic repository of choral works from all periods and hymns and chants in Spanish. Finding material there is not easy, but is worth the effort. Everything is arranged alphabetically by title and viewing requires the old FinaleViewer. It's sometimes easier to get to the pieces through CPDL. Here's a list of Monsignor di Marco's repertory as catalogued there: http://www.cpdl.org/wiki/index.php/Special:Whatlinkshere/User:Abel_Di_Marco . Use the links that you find at the CPDL page for each piece (not the score itself) to get a link for downloading the viewer. Don't go through Finale's own download site: their version won't work for these files. At some point it would be a great act of generosity for someone (or a group) to convert all of this into pdf files, as would a liturgical index of the music.
I can't tell you how many times I've tried to download something, anything, from the Finale site link that would make Monsignor di Marco's scores available to me. I've installed every bit of software available for Mac, and I also have two different Finale products on my desktop. Nothing works. Perhaps it's a Mac problem. If other Mac users have discovered a solution, I would love to hear it.
Mary
The versions from Finale itself do not work for Monsignor di Marco's scores on any platform. As far as I can tell, the version from his site is for PC only and works quite well.
I'm PC and have also never been able to download anything from the site, (been trying for 5 years, on 7 different computers) But then again I am an admitted, albeit abashed, technidiot... I have in the past found very usable Spanish-language hymns in both Lutheran and Methodist sources, unimpeachable as far as their theology, (I am, I admit, dependent on someone else translation,) and after all, the English-language output of at least two "Catholic" publishers can be more than questionable, theologically.
G is right about protestant music - they (well, except the mainstreams) don't fudge their theology. Use all the Lutheran music you like, just don't touch the stuff dealing with Communion or Justification! Unlike the Catholic companies where you have no CLUE whether their texts are compatible with Catholic doctrine. Maybe they can label the music in Catholic hymnals "Catholic Hymn", "Pelagian Hymn", "Arian Hymn", etc.
I am leery about saying this, but, a lot of the stuff that OCP has in Spanish is quite questionable. One time, we had programmed "Hombres Nuevos" into the rotation. We had a visiting priest from Poland, who had been stationed in Brazil. He stopped the song midway and told us to not sing that anymore because it was tinged with liberation theology. Needless to say, we didn't sing that anymore. Other songs focus more on the community (O Amor de Dios, Ven al Banquete and Somos El Cuepo de Cristo). The older ones, like Bendigamos al Senor, Todo lo que Tengo and Alabado Sea El Senor, and even the newer ones like Amen (El Cuepo de Cristo) and Donde Hay Cardiad, do a much better job because they are more grounded in the Church's liturgical theology.
El nuevo Cantoral Litúrgico Pastoral “Celebrar Cantando” es un instrumento a ser utilizado, para promover el canto litúrgico y lograr suficiente unidad y dignidad en las celebraciones, según las indicaciones proporcionadas por la Santa Sede. Esta publicación contiene 671 obras con partitura y acordes, en un formato a color para facilitar la lectura. Promueve también la formación de Ministerios de música parroquiales, iniciándolos en los criterios litúrgicos y en la lectura de la notación musical, con el fin de formar al coro y la asamblea. El canto sagrado es patrimonio de la Asamblea: el solista y el coro servirán como guía para que todo el pueblo alabe a Dios cantando con gozo y alegría.
Liturgical Press distributes books of Buenaprensa (a Mexican firm) in the US, but I don't know whether that will extend to this hymnal from Ecuador.
I'm bumping this thread, because Jeff Ostrowski above mentions having purchased a literal Spanish translation of the Office hymns. Could anybody tell me what the name of this source is, and how I could acquire it?
I am under an NDA, but I can tell you that a major publisher is currently preparing a spanish-language hymnal for use within the USA, that contains quite a bit of traditional hymnody. I've seen the proof, and it's quite unlike anything else currently on the market (of which I am aware). While there is plenty in it that I'd prefer to see gone, there is also oodles of chant translated into spanish (with the Latin available as well), as well as more traditional western-style hymnody with translations applied. There are latin ordinaries, and other goodies to boot. Hopefully its coming will be sooner than later. This will be a very far cry from the standard OCP fare that is more mariachi than Mass music.
Hello, I have extensive experience with Spanish liturgical music. I'm currently co-director of sacred music for the Hispanic community. I'm from Guadalajara, Mexico, and I've been living here in the US for a year. It's quite sad to know that the most popular music here is Flor y Canto by OCP. That style of music is something that is being used less and less in Mexico these days, thank God.I agree that the best Spanish-language music available in the US is Canta Misa and Cantoral de ILP. Both have their potential for improvement, but they certainly have better traditional Spanish music than OCP.
If you can, start introducing Gregorian Ordinaries. I would start with Agnus Dei XVIII, let it get in people's minds and hearts for at least a year. Then introduce Kyrie XVI, same thing, let it settle in. Year 3 you introduce Sanctus XVIII. Year 4 is Mysterium fidei. I would use Gloria VIII, but introducing it is tricky. Maybe start by using it at Christmas and Easter only, then maybe for the Sundays during those seasons. Once that takes, you might experiment with Missa Orbis factor during ordinary time. After a few years, your parish and choir should prefer these to the previous FyC settings. I wouldn't push Pater noster or Credo III unless your pastor really wants them. Sadly, I do not recommend the Mass settings from either Cantoral or Canta la Misa, unless it's the ubiquitous "misa gregoriana". As for responsorial psalms, compose your own, really. If you need hymns, I strongly recommend Canta la Misa over Cantoral. But once you exhaust those, you may want to delve deeper into older, out of print hymnals. The older texts are sometimes too devotional, but at least they are not deficient as some FyC hymn texts are. Some of the music is dated, but you will find some gems. Here is the best source I have found for OOP hymnals. https://cantoliturgico.org/articulos/item/233-cantorales-antiguos By taking the best hymns from these, you could ostensibly make a curated hymnal for your parish and never use an OCP hymn again. Good luck!
I know that it’s a hard sell to do otherwise, but that is gonna entrench the wrong kind of chant, i.e. the simplest meant for penitential ferial days in Sundays, without getting to the heart of it.
Four years? For a lot of people, that is time to move on to a new job even in this business. Maybe especially — not necessarily because the pastor is bad and undermines you, but because of money or other, even uncontrollable factors. Shoot; in less than that, I saw an English (mostly) parish return to hymnals from Source and Summit. Blech.
I think that my comment applies across cultures and languages too!
As I see it, the heart of it is that any music director working with a pastor who knows anything and who has the will to implement decent music would not be asking questions about how to do "traditional" Catholic music in Spanish. The original post is quite old, but the original question is still relevant for those coming into a new position with limited experience, where they or the pastor want to make some changes for the better.
Assume for a second the money and "uncontrollable factors" are a non-issue, why would you move on? That short-changes the pastor who invests into you as a musician and the parishioners who invest into you as a member of the community. In my experience, a lot of people get into church music to build programs, and if it's from scratch, that takes time, so they don't hop from one "gig" to another in just a couple of years. YMMV.
Yeah. It takes time. But the big risk is that you get stuck or go so slow that you get enough opposition and the pastor loses his backbone all of a sudden.
I’ve seen that more often than I wish to recall. And this doesn’t even get to doing the propers. There may be a hard upper limit on full Gregorian Masses per diocese/per area due to the limits on getting capable, committed people. But that’s also the goal, is it not? Four years is a long time.
I have some issues with Source and Summit (namely that its presentation of (Latin) chant is neither according to Vatican or Solesmes rules and so the music is quite confusing to sing), on top of being committed to chant in Latin and the propers over English, but my real complaint is not just abandoning Source and Summit, it is that it was used for barely a year…
The hymnal also has the wrong rite for benediction, as it the old ICEL collect which is now relegated to the dustbin of liturgical history. I honestly don’t know why this was not fixed, because it’s a relatively new book where they should have known about the change or where you just take a loss on excess copies once it happens.
But it was disorienting, on top of being benediction being with the Mass ordinary instead of at the end of the book where it is more logically placed.
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