What to call this - Novus Ordo Missa Cantata? Something else?
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,332
    I'm diligently working to improve the music at the parish where I work. We celebrate the ordinary form of the Mass exclusively, and have been singing good, solid hymnody for the past year (the time I've been there). The assembly usually is pretty good about participating in the hymns, and are almost always good about participating in the psalm and the ordinary. It's a pretty good singing congregation.

    I'm not interested in phasing out vernacular hymns. I AM interested in utilizing more propers, and I'm loving the Simple Choral Gradual. I believe very strongly in the need for the Mass to be celebrated in an appropriately reverent, solemn, HOLY manner.

    I haven't run this by my pastor yet, but I think he would be open to trying it. At least most of it. This is what I'm proposing:

    Processional hymn until the priest reaches the altar.
    SCG Entrance for when the priest is moving from the altar to the chair.
    Chanted Kyrie.
    Sung Gloria.
    Guimont "Lectionary" Psalm.
    Alleluia chanted.
    SCG Offertory Antiphon.
    Offertory hymn.
    Sung ordinary and chanted Our Father.
    Communion hymn.
    SCG Communion Antiphon.
    Recessional hymn.
    ***Chanted dialogues and congregational responses throughout Mass.

    Would it be okay to call this a Novus Ordo Missa Cantata? All I mean by it is that it is an almost completely SUNG MASS.

    What do you think of this idea? Before I got to this parish, they were singing the Gather Top 40 every week, and they've already made a great deal of progress with minimal complaints. Thanks be to God.
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,332
    This wouldn't be for all of our weekend Masses, at least not at first. Just an experiment for now...
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    This looks very good. I know you are not interested in phasing out hymns and you have a singing congregation, so it can work. But in addition to the dialogues and Ordinary parts, there are Propers; RP and Alleluia, and 4 hymns for the congregation. It seems to me a lot for the congregation to sing. Some people from pews told me that they cannot pray, because they have to try to sing so many hymns. When the congregation is required to sing so much , it seems that the singing cease to be a prayer for the average pew people (who are not musicians). Some people might enjoy just listening and meditating on the beauty of the choir singing a bit more elaborate music, maybe a motet during offertory after the Proper? Just my 2 cents.
    Thanks for all your hard work, and I'll pray for you and your work.
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,332
    Thanks for your response, miacoyne.

    I wasn't planning to include the congregation on the pieces from Rice's Simple Choral Gradual. We currently do this:

    Opening hymn
    Spoken Kyrie
    Sung Gloria
    Sung Psalm
    Chanted Alleluia
    Offertory hymn
    Sung ordinary and spoken Our Father (sometimes chanted, but rarely)
    Communion hymn
    Recessional hymn

    The dialogues are sometimes sung, but not always. I'm really just proposing adding the choral selections from the SCG to what we do already and chanting the Our Father.

    I think that including a choral piece (motet or English language piece of some sort) would be great, and I would definitely consider it if the choir is able to learn it in time.\

    Any thoughts on what to CALL this liturgical creature I've created? Thanks so much to everyone for this wonderful forum :)
  • Charles in CenCA
    Posts: 2,416
    Well it might fly as a Missa Differtus. I sort've extracted that from a term coined by Dr. Mahrt, our CMAA prez, that I first heard at the NOLA Chant Intensive this last January profiled in my Chant Cafe article here.
  • MarkThompson
    Posts: 768
    Differta, though.
  • MaryAnn Carr WilsonMaryAnn Carr Wilson
    Posts: 1,738
    Are you familiar with the 3 degrees in Musicam Sacram? That document outlines the process the Church proposes for adding the singing parts of the liturgy.

    What you describe above not a bad idea toward a sung mass, but its not really a Missa Cantata with basic parts spoken, like the Kyrie or Pater. What about the Sanctus and Agnus? Did I miss mention of those?
  • Charles in CenCA
    Posts: 2,416
    differta
    I like that, Mark, sounds like "taffeta."
    Differtus is too close to "conflatus" for both comfort and declension.
  • Mike R
    Posts: 106
    I'd go all in and try to get the priest to chant the Gospel and Eucharistic Prayer as well :)
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,332
    Dear MaryAnn,

    Perhaps I was unclear. We currently speak the Kyrie and Pater, and sing the Sanctus and Agnus Dei.

    I'm proposing that we sing or chant nearly the entire Mass. Perhaps it would help to say the parts that I think we should SPEAK!

    I'm suggesting we speak the First Reading, Second Reading, Gospel, and Credo. Everything else sung or chanted.
  • SkirpRSkirpR
    Posts: 854
    Just out of curiosity, what would people recommend for a parish with a priest-pastor who absolutely cannot sing well, and really isn't comfortable learning or working on it?
  • MaryAnn Carr WilsonMaryAnn Carr Wilson
    Posts: 1,738
    Rectotono for his sung parts is always an option, and can help ease someone with that issue into singing over time.
    Speaking slowly, and connecting the words/ making strong phrases.
  • mahrt
    Posts: 517
    Missa cantata from the extraordinary form has a very specific meaning, and it is recommended by Musicam sacram to be retained. So for the ordinary form, a missa cantata is a completely sung Mass. But for the Mass you describe, how about simply sung Mass. This implies that the priest sings his parts and the choir and congregation sing much of the Mass.
  • Joseph Mansfield
    Posts: 113
    MaryAnn writes, "Rectotono for his sung parts is always an option..." for a priest who just can't sing his parts in the OF. Can anyone cite chapter and verse of something authoritative (GIRM, maybe?) to back this up? I'm sure it is right, I just can't find this option in writing anywhere.
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