English version of Missa de Angelis?
  • Hello new friends,

    I have written a new setting for the Mass, which is modern, but our Franscisan friars at the Shrine of St. Anthony would like a Chant Mass. One friar in particular usually sings his sections such as 'the Lord be with you...' that came from his memory of the Missa de Angelis. I was wondering if anyone had created an English version of that beloved Mass. Does anyone know? Thanks for your help.

    Nancy Krebs
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    Nancy, please E-mail me at jeff@ccwatershed.org
  • cdruiz
    Posts: 26
    Here is a version of Gloria 8 that I made, set to the new english translation.
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 1,820
    Though I think I would prefer to sing "heav'n-ly Ki-ng", that's really very nice, cdruiz! Did you use Gregorio or another program?
  • cdruiz
    Posts: 26
    I used Gregorio. I have the most difficult time singing heav'n instead of hea-ven. It's all about me. :-)
  • Ben YankeBen Yanke
    Posts: 3,114
    Could you post the GBAC? I'd love to be able to re-typeset that and use it myself (if you don't mind).
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 7,730
    It doesn't look like Gregorio output. "Gregoire", maybe?
  • You know, it occurs to me that perhaps the entire Kyriale could be set in Gregorio using the new translation. I'm not nearly adept as many here, but I'd try to do what I can. What do you all think? Is this a good project?
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 7,730
    Want to start a thread for that topic? I think some folks would join in. You could create a Google spreadsheet to store the GABC code people create, as Adam B. did for the Simple English Propers.

    There might be call for English and Latin versions of each piece, though I'm not sure all the Latin melodies will work out well for English texts.
  • cdruiz
    Posts: 26
    You're right. It is Gregoire. I'm going to have to google Gregorio.
  • SkirpRSkirpR
    Posts: 853
    Sorry for the delayed bump here, but I've been interested in an English setting of the Missa de Angelis Gloria for the new translation, and I was happy to see cdruiz's version above. From his initial work, I took the liberty of slightly more freely employing adaptations to the melodic outline in order to keep the mini-melismas in this otherwise syllabic chant from falling on the less important words or syllables.

    I think it would be great to have a common CMAA version of this... so feedback and comments welcome.
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    Bruce Ford did a BEAUTIFUL adaptation of several Masses, including Mass VIII, which will appear in the Vatican II Hymnal.

    Re: the Vatican II Hymnal, it is finally complete (including full indices, Preface, copyright notices, etc.)

    I will be posting it very soon: within a few days.

    Again: it is 100% FINISHED, but there is still some final proofreading, etc. that needs to be done on it. I will be asking folks for help.

    By the way, many helpful comments came from this forum. For instance, several of Michael O'connor's suggestions were very helpful.
  • SkirpRSkirpR
    Posts: 853
    Sorry for the delayed bump here, but I've been interested in an English setting of the Missa de Angelis Gloria for the new translation, and I was happy to see cdruiz's version above. From his initial work, I took the liberty of slightly more freely employing adaptations to the melodic outline in order to keep the mini-melismas in this otherwise syllabic chant from falling on the less important words or syllables.

    I think it would be great to have a common CMAA version of this... so feedback and comments welcome.
  • SkirpRSkirpR
    Posts: 853
    Thanks Jeff. I've been away from the forum for a while...

    Glad to see there's going to be something official around here. I need to present some options to my pastor in the next few weeks.

    It was at least fun for me to do the above as an exercise. :)
  • Mark M.Mark M.
    Posts: 632
    Jeffrey O.… looking forward to seeing the VII Hymnal… especially the Kyriale! Congrats on its completion and near-release.
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 1,820
    Chanting in English is a very personal thing, I think. After learning to chant Tudor English it's taken me a while to find a suitable style for P. Ford's American Gradual. I've also experimented on my own, singing Latin and then a free translation. So I find much to steal, um, emulate in both cdruiz's and SkirpR's versions, while not being able to resist tampering: here is the gregorio code for my take, which I fed into Chonak's interface here. Apparently use of apostrophes requires some work-around, so "heav'nly" must be infered.

    name: Gloria VIII (De angelis);
    %%
    (c3)Glo(h)ry(h) to(f) God(ed) in(e) the(f) high(e.)est,(d.) *(::)
    and(h) on(h) earth(fe) peace(fed) (,) to(d) peo(e)ple(f) of(h) good(i) will.(h.) (::)
    We(k) praise(jIHi.) you,(h.) (::)
    we(k) bless(jIH ij) you,(i.h.) (::)
    we(h) a(h)dore(fed ef) you, (d.) (::)
    we(d) glo(ef)ri(h)fy(i.) you, (h.) (::)
    we(h) give(ijkj) you(ij) thanks(i.h.) for(h) your(fe) great(def) glo(e.)ry,(d.) (::)
    Lord(h) God,(hfed.) (,) heaven(e)ly(f) King,(e.d.) (,)
    O(defh) God,(ih) al(ij)might(k)y(j) Fa(ih)ther.(h.) (::)
    Lord(hhFE) Je(de)sus(f) Christ,(hih.) (,) On(h)ly(i) Be(j)got(k)ten(j) Son,(i.h.) (::)
    Lord(kji) God,(jih) (,)Lamb(i) of(j) God,(i.h.) (,) Son(hh FED) of(e) the(f) Fa(e.)ther,(d.) (::)
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 7,730
    The apostrophe works from here:

    heav'n(e)ly(f)

    This should work correctly if you type the apostrophe into the web form. However, if you copy and paste the GABC code from a word processor, you may get a left- or right-slanted apostrophe instead of a vertical one.
  • quilisma
    Posts: 123
    Am I right in thinking that such a setting would require approval from ICEL before you could use it outside your parish?

    Having recently attended a workshop on music for the new translation amongst other things, we were informed that:
    - one could write things for one's own parish, but any distributed settings require approval from ICEL
    - refrain form of Gloria is still ok (presumably, for those congregations with poor memories)
    - no more paraphrasing (I suppose that this permits (sometimes needless) repetition and that it's still ok to sing Alleluia a million times before the Gospel, even though only three occurrences are present in the missal - nevertheless bringing back a 9-fold Kyrie will get you branded a traddie ;-) )

    So, really, you folks shouldn't be posting your own (unapproved) settings here, in case they might be used outside your parish leading you to incur the wrath of....I don't know what exactly.
  • SkirpRSkirpR
    Posts: 853
    I only posted here for collaboration leading to a better final product... but I think it would serve us best to wait for the version in the Vatican II Hymnal.

    While I definitely agree with Richard Mix that chanting in English is a very personal thing - I'm the kind of dork who would be happy to discuss the reason I made the choices I made - I try always have a reason to back up my "instincts" - I believe even more strongly in consistency in the Church, and so while I'm having fun at this little exercise, I will likely, in my parish, defer to the what's in the V2 Hymnal.
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 1,820
    Not _the_ Quilisma? Let me not incur your wrath ;-) ICEL policy is spelled out on Musica Sacra. I hope no one will be discouraged from either offering or soliciting criticism of noncommercial settings, and though I realize I might be on thin ice with the apostrophe I thank Chonak for the very plausible explanation!
  • There appear to be personal interpretations of ICEL policy that creep into workshop presentations.

    "- one could write things for one's own parish, but any distributed settings require approval from ICEL" would immediately set off a flurry of Robin Hood-like reactions with every Tom, Dick and Harriet writing things and sharing them throughout the countryside.

    But we are already doing that. In England it's been squelched by a secret committee that must approve music settings.

    But, every since the tea party we've been free of that kind of interference.

    If I am wrong, I apologize in advance.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,303
    I don't remember who, but someone who frequents these boards said something like:
    There's a provision for use of new settings in one's own "ecclesiastical community," and I consider the whole world my ecclesiastical community.

    This whole thing is ridiculous and unenforceable.
    Thanked by 1Settefrati93
  • Mommabear9292
    Posts: 1
    Does anyone have the complete Missa de Angelis in English? (Not just the Gloria. I’ve found the Ford version of the Gloria and Sanctus). Hoping for a printable comprehensive version in English.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 7,730
    Welcome to the forum!

    Richard Clark, director of music at the cathedral in Boston, has published an adaptation called "Mass of the Angels", available from CanticaNova Publications. Some excerpts are on YouTube:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34HaLV7KG-4
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BF2Uh4UhSwQ
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYFueBJMZek
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • davido
    Posts: 169
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 6,757
    Davido's example is quite good.
    Only one aspect of it makes me wince and be ever so thankful for Old Church English; namely, the consistent occurrence of the pronoun 'you' (as opposed to 'thee').
    There is just something about that yoo, yoo, yoo (as in 'yoo hoo') that is comical and unpleasant to one's aesthetical faculties (not to mention gratuitously familiar).

    Otherwise this version is commendable.
    It should be sung everywhere.
    Thanked by 1Incardination
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 1,820
    "You" isn't really up for negotiation in the non-ordinate sphere.
    OF folks may be pleased the William Renwick has also 3 other masses at https://www.humanities.mcmaster.ca/~renwick/Annex/
    2012 Missa Alme Pater.pdf
    2012 Missa Cum jubilo.pdf
    2012 Missa Orbis factor.pdf
    2012 Missa de Angelis.pdf

    His magnum opus-in-progress is of course The Sarum Rite:
    http://hmcwordpress.humanities.mcmaster.ca/renwick/