New Flor y Canto
  • benedictgal
    Posts: 798
    This weekend I received a CD along with some preview music for the upcoming Flor y Canto. In their promotional material, OCP notes that we can use their selections with confidence as they claim that the music is in line with the Church documents. Having listened to half of the preview CD, I am wondering which "church" and which "documents" the publishing house is referencing. One of the selections sounds like a bad "ranchera piece" while others sound like something you would hear on Dancing With the Star's Latin night. I will be posting a more comprehensive review some time this week.
  • Daniel Bennett PageDaniel Bennett Page
    Posts: 833
    One also wonders if it is as infested with "liberation theology" (Marxism) as the current/previous edition.
  • benedictgal
    Posts: 798
    There are a couple of songs that sound as though they are the Spanish-language versions of Gather Us In; they are centered around "us" and what "we" are doing.
  • benedictgal
    Posts: 798
    Here are the links to the samples:

    http://www.ocp.org/FyC3samples

    The Gloria is rather scary.
  • G
    Posts: 1,397
    One also wonders if it is as infested with "liberation theology" (Marxism) as the current/previous edition


    Can you give examples?
    I have only ever used it for Ordinaries and Marian songs for weddings, Quinces and Quinceaneras, and my command of the language is pathetic -- I have to trust the celebrant that I am singing the correct psalm ;oP

    (Save the Liturgy, Save the World)
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    The number for truly "traditional" Spanish hymns included makes one wonder if hymns were ever sung in Spanish.
    Thanked by 1eft94530
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    A Spanish-speaking priest who attended the colloquium last year assured us that there are 'traditional' Spanish-language hymns, but they seem to be unknown to the publishers here!
    Thanked by 1eft94530
  • benedictgal
    Posts: 798
    From what I have endured, there are a handful of hits, but, more than a few misses. The new Gloria that they have posted on the Flor y Canto site is also rather strange. I can understand "Inculturation", but, even this particular rendition takes it too far.
  • benedictgal
    Posts: 798
    I am going to start reviewing the songs in the next couple of days; however, there is one that concerns me. It is called "No Hay Amor Mas Grande/No Greater Love", by Bob Hurd, which is meant for Good Friday. Obviously, the lyrics are scripturally based, taken from Jesus' final discourse; however, the musical setting is too much, especially for Good Friday. The rubrics note that the musical instruments should be silent (or at least, quite subued). In the sampler CD recording, there is too much music, too many instruments and a rather long musical introduction. The setting, itself, is not really compatible with the degree of solemnity and sobriety that the Good Friday liturgy demands. Rather than write a new song for Good Friday, why couldn't Bob Hurd or OCP simply set the Spanish-language translation of the Reproaches to music?
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    The desire to make money is why there are at least 11 hymn tunes sung to Soul Of My Saviour. Catholic church hymnals used to feature mainly works by the editor, either original or arrangements - The St. Greg and Montani is a good example of that. There's an Australian St, Pius Hymnal that's follows that model and many more.

    Why set a public domain text when you can write words and music and have multiple streams of income?
  • Charles in CenCA
    Posts: 2,416
    BG-,
    Mehopes thou dost protest a tad in extremis. Bob's song you cite has been around for quite a few years and, as you even concede, isn't without textual merit. I do not, however, regard it nor employ it at the GF Liturgy, not for the reasons you cite, but that there exists already, as you also point out, a rich palette of musical offerings prescribed already.
    I don't think the "song" in toto offends at all a basic catholic sensibility, especially by comparison to the polka/ranchero settings that find greater favor apparently with many congregations who use FyC. So, why, outside of taste, link it like a portion of a tinker toy construct to, again, remind us of rubrics and solemn sobriety? Most of us here know it ain't Victoria's Reproaches setting, the Misereri by Allegri or the Lotti Crucifixus. Noel's point is well taken, whether intended to be realistic or cynical, self-interest in music publishing isn't a new thing under the noonday sun, and I'll take most of Hurd's catalogue over Montani's every day of the week.
    Personally, I've found that the Hurd/Cortez/Schiavone axis isn't embraced as much by Spanish-as-primary vernacular congregations as is the tradicional and popular offerings in FyC out here in the predominantly Hispanic Central CA. valley. Hurd's compositional vocabulary seems actually more Central American/Andean to my ear. YMMV.
    Hope to see you next week?
  • benedictgal
    Posts: 798
    The torture is almost complete. There are some really horrible pieces in this CD.
  • aldrich
    Posts: 230
    There are many traditional Spanish hymns. Those that I know include: Perdon, O Dios mio; Bendita sea tu pureza; No me mueves; No mas amor que el tuyo; Cantemos al amor de los amores. We Filipinos used to know these hymns by heart. Most of my fellow citizens no longer does.
  • benedictgal
    Posts: 798
    But, for every traditional hymn, there are about 20 banal pieces. I just posted the first half of my review on my blog.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    Actually, the numbers are much worse than that....you are being gracious!
  • benedictgal
    Posts: 798
    There are some that sound just downright horrible, especially "Tu Me Conoces."
  • a1437053a1437053
    Posts: 198
    http://www.ocp.org/FyC3history

    Fun reading!

    Among the indigenous peoples, the relationship of human beings with the Divine was a living reality. Their desire to know and to express the truth was an integral quest in their life. Yet, they felt that only through "flower and song" could truth be open to them, as this was the way to the "Giver of Life." For the Aztecs, "flower and song" was the fruit of authentic inner experience emerging from within, from God's "home"; it is the only means of communicating with one's own being particularly with the Giver of Life who dwells in our hearts. Abstract expressions seem empty. On the contrary, symbols, images and metaphors which are fresh, vigorous and dynamic, surge from a "deified heart."

    "Flower and Song" (two words to express one single idea, according to indigenous style), gives meaning to life since it is the way to think, live and die. It pleases the Giver of Life who comes to live in our hearts as we possess the truth. According to Aztec metaphysics and theology, as human beings offer their "singing flowers" and their "flowering songs," as they create artistic expressions of their innermost truth, the Giver of Life is "amused and laughs." The Divinity listens as "we cry from the depth of our being" (Ps. 130:1) and blesses our struggle to express it.

    This volume of original and popular religious hymns truly presents the inner soul of their composers and gives us the opportunity to use the "Flower and Song" of our brothers and our sisters to express our own personal truth, feelings, and yearnings. We hope that "the Giver of Life" will be pleased with our joyful flowers of song.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    The Aztecs were murderous heathens. That is not fun reading, but a case of a writer who has lost his mind.

    "All the gods of the pagans are demons."
    Psalm 95:5
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    Charles, it is so nice that school is out and you get to come and play again!

    LOST HIS MIND! LOL
  • benedictgal
    Posts: 798
    @a1437053

    I think that the author of this interesting little piece you quoted forgot to note that the Aztecs also beliveved in human sacrifice. Their particular cultic worship was not all hearts and flowers.

    Listening to 24-songs, many of them rather sub-par, was not pleasant. However, as charitable as I have tried to be, the thorns outweigh the flowers. If OCP and the composers meant for these to be played at Mass in the same manner they are presented in the CD, then we are in bad straits. A few of these songs could have been played with an organ, not some mish-mash setting.
  • benedictgal
    Posts: 798
    Here is the second half of my review:

    http://benedictgal-lexorandilexcredendi.blogspot.com/2011/06/weeds-outweigh-flowers.html

    After listening to this CD for a few days, I had to purify my ears with a heavy does of Duran Duran. I tried to be charitable, but, a lot of this stuff would have been better suited for Latin Night on Dancing with the Stars.
  • The Thurifer
    Posts: 12
    It would appear that OCP in general is deliberately working against Church documents regarding sacred music and our Holy Father's writings concerning the same.

    Regarding the "flower and song" origins, the Aztec faith revolved around the offering of human hearts to various demonic "gods." There were over a hundred such deities, so I'm not sure which one the "Giver of Life" is. The author of this drivel also commits the cultural error of implying that the bulk of Hispanic immigrants are descendants of Aztecs, while the majority of Mexican immigrants in the USA do not come from the region surrounding Mexico City where the descendants of Aztecs live today, but mostly from other regions where the Aztecs were the historic enemy oppressors. Not to mention, of course, those who come from other Latin countries and don't relate at all to alleged Aztec theology.

    My primary beef with "Flor y Canto" is that the Mass parts, especially the Glorias, rarely follow the approved Spanish texts of the prayers. Some are truly awful paraphrases, and most of the music contained therein is bad to the point of being almost stereotypical. 
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    I know we should assume good intent and all that, but to be honest, I believe this statement more and more everyday:

    "It would appear that OCP in general is deliberately working against Church documents regarding sacred music and our Holy Father's writings concerning the same."

    It's not like they don't know what the church says about all this.
  • benedictgal
    Posts: 798
    When I wrote my review, I wondered just which church and which document OCP was citing. What amazed me was my conversation with one of the editors, Pedro Rubalcava when I asked him about the Exultet.  His version of the Exultet is bilingual and the musicality is more along the lines of a Spanish pop song and not at all sacred. I asked him about the kinds of instruments used in the recording (keyobards, drums and guitars).  I told him that it was my understanding that, during the Easter Vigil, the Exultet should have muted instrumentation, since the full organ would come into use for the chanting of the Gloria. I also asked him about the church documents and the writings of Pope Benedict, especially Sacramentum Caritatis, and he seemed to brush these off as opinion.  He told me that no one had ever expressed opinions like mine.
  • Charles in CenCA
    Posts: 2,416

    The following is not a defense nor a rationale for "tolerance"-


    *OCP et al (aka LIC, "Liturgical Industrial Complex") are self-serving businesses, despite their historical origins and any "mission statements" that would put lipstick to distract attention away from that cold hard reality.


    *LIC's, therefore, must cover the waterfront, product-wise, in order to maintain a constant presence in the marketplace of supply versus demand.


    *LIC's function smoothly within a presumption by all interested parties that all said parties participate with good intentions and in good faith.


    *However, the presumption that there is actual ecclesiastical oversight at any meaningful level of LIC's that operate within the pervue of a local See would be naivete; this despite the recent example of an article "penned" by Bp. Vlazny in an edition of OCP's periodical "Liturgy Today."


    *LIC's aren't at all purposefully or deliberately ignorant of any and all "trends." Their finger in the wind is likely much more sophisticated that any of us would acknowledge from our perch on the powerline. Therefore, we do see some readjustments to repertoire content that implies due diligence. But (this is my opinion) this is likely more liptstick to distract certain segments of those who must buy the whole cow while trying to just use the most nutricious milk (chant, worthy hymnody and psalm settings, ordinaries, etc.) from the larger vista: the purposeful glutting of the market to insure a strong marketshare among the consumers. Again, LIC's are businesses first and foremost.


    *Who exactly are the consumers? Whomever within each parish/cathedral/dioceses maintain the symbiotic relationship based upon many factors of convenience and taste through subscription to yearly periodical worship aides. It's simply not unlike any household's modus to subscribe to the local newspaper or "USA TODAY," or "Time" versus "Atlantic Monthly" or "The Economist." This is the only ground zero where real change will be negotiated. Again, classic "supply versus demand" principles apply.


    *The original concern of this thread within all of this context? The much heralded demographic reality that everyone rightly celebrates, but that also contribute to a maelstrom of concerns about universality versus balkanization, and so forth.


    *When there is an exasperated call for Catholic Central, uh, the Curia or the Pontiff-Sheriff to just come in and clean up Dodge City, I personally remember JMO's sessions that exhaustively portrayed the chronology and institutional conflicts that took decades, decades to resolve (satisfactorally?) between Solesmes editions and Vatican editions of the Graduale. In other words, "as if..."


    All politics are local.

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