Appendix to the Liber Usualis
  • aldrich
    Posts: 230
    At the end of every Liber Usualis, following the Supplement for Certain Religious Congregations, is usually the propers of feasts kept in certain areas and countries. For example, the .pdf copy of said book downloadable from Sanctmissa has proper feasts kept in the dioceses of the US. A friend of mine has another set of proper feasts, this time from the dioceses of Spain.

    POINT: Does anyone possess a Liber Usualis which has a yet different set of proper feasts from those mentioned above (e.g. from France or Germany)? Could it be posted here?
    Thanked by 1Chrism
  • Aga
    Posts: 38
    And I would like to find a version with proper feasts from the dioceses of Poland.
    If anyone has such Liber Usualis, please post it here (only a supplement) or contact me.
  • fernandogilfernandogil
    Posts: 38
    Aldrich, I have one supplement for dioceses from Latin America, I'm working on a new edition of this!
    Thanked by 1igneus
  • mahrt
    Posts: 517
    I have a Liber from 1904 with a supplement for the Sulpician order of some 70 pages, plus a number of undesignated supplements.
  • David Sullivan
    Posts: 355
    I have a 1961 Graduale Romanum with the supplement for the Benedictines and another for the English Benedictine Congregation.

    It also has a section called "Proprium Sanctorum pro aliquibus locis" which has propers for such Masses as: The Flight of Our Lord into Egypt, The Lance and Nails of Our Lord, Our Lady Help of Christians, Our Lady of Perpetual Help, St Helena the Empress, and many others. It would be interesting to know more about these.
  • Arthur Connick
    Posts: 496
    The French version of the Liber Usualis, Paroissien Romain No. 800, has a supplement for France. I also have a 1956 Liber Usualis with the supplement "Proprium Hiberniæ" (Ireland).
  • aldrich
    Posts: 230
    Hi everyone!

    Can you scan these pages and post them here, so that everybody in search for particuar propers may find them here easily? I really would want to see them, too, as a I have been curious for a long time now how particular propers differ from the universal propers of the Church.

    Thanks and God bless!
  • aldrich
    Posts: 230
    Hi, all!

    Is there a way you can make these supplemental propers available here?

    Thanks!
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    Have you checked CCWatershed's Lelande Rare-books library? They might have it there. ccwatershed.org (?)

    I have several copies of the Liber, all French : In my mind the great treasures of these books are three Messe du Plainchant by Henri DuMont.
    Thanked by 2Patricia Cecilia hilluminar
  • expeditus1
    Posts: 483
    Salieri's mention of DuMont's Messe du Plainchant above, leads me to once again pose the question of whether anyone possesses an accompaniment to these?
  • aldrich
    Posts: 230
    @Salieri, I think I have checked most of their books, and the supplemental propers, which are sometimes very unique to each region (e.g., a sequence that is only allowed in Barcelona), are not in sight.

    @expeditus1, I have no idea where to start looking for it.
  • mahrt
    Posts: 517
    One of the wonders of the Liber Usualis is that you can expect each copy to have a different set of supplements.
    Thanked by 5CHGiffen Paul_Onnonhoaraton Felicity igneus Cantus67
  • Felicity
    Posts: 77
    expeditus1

    Accompaniments to DeMonts' three Masses can be found on pages 91 and following (p.98 in the pdf) at

    http://sci.pam.szczecin.pl/~splawgo/Missae.pdf

    Deo gratias!
    Thanked by 5expeditus1 CHGiffen E_A_Fulhorst Patricia Cecilia CCooze
  • expeditus1
    Posts: 483
    Felicity, you are a treasure trove! Thanks for always being so willing to share your knowledge and resources!
  • ClemensRomanusClemensRomanus
    Posts: 1,023
    Is there a supplement for the Franciscans of the Holy Land?
  • mmeladirectress
    Posts: 1,100
    in storage somewhere I have LU with rubrics in German, will look for it, but not sure how I can post it here. be back
    Thanked by 2igneus tomjaw
  • NihilNominisNihilNominis
    Posts: 1,021
    Desclee used to have plates of propers for feasts of local importance, obscure sequences, &c. that they would print on request.

    These, along with the plates of the Liber Usualis itself, were acquired and melted down by the Gregorian Institute of America in the late 1960s. How much of what they contained, beyond the supplements and appendices, has been lost is unknown.
    Thanked by 1Chrism
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,414
    ...acquired and melted down...

    This is insane. I don't understand it..
    Thanked by 4CHGiffen a_f_hawkins CCooze Chrism
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,467
    .(with acknowledgements)
    The_Scream.jpg
    128 x 163 - 7K
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,414
    Not just insane, but evil.

    Is there some explanation other than the desire to obliterate an unwanted heritage?

    I must say it again. This is evil, the work of savages.
    Thanked by 1mmeladirectress
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,782
    Could we... build up a database of the supplements / appendices, I am sure if we all looked in the backs of the books WE have we should have a good selection.

    Hopefully what we find can be put on Gregobase...
    Thanked by 2CCooze chonak
  • igneusigneus
    Posts: 387
    "build up a database of the supplements / appendices ... what we find can be put on Gregobase"

    Now I'm glad I don't own an LU.
  • NihilNominisNihilNominis
    Posts: 1,021
    A correction, direct from my source on the LU meltdown, which makes it even more inane and tragic...

    ...apparently this did not happen in the heat of the 60's weirdness, but in the 1980's.

    The destruction of the supplemental material is strongly presumed; its actual fate is not necessarily known.
    Thanked by 1igneus
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,311
    Arthur Connick is working on acquiring LU supplements and putting them online.
    Thanked by 3ClemensRomanus CCooze tomjaw
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,782
    We have most of the Supplement for England and Wales... but the music of some Propers do not appear to be found anywhere... I also have a the Benedictine supplement.

    The Franciscan supplement is online, and I think the Carmelite. Of course the Dominican is already on Gregobase.

    I have access to the texts of quite a few more...

    We have yet to find a complete set of the Propers for Germany. The Swiss have a few Proper feast and I am sure the music is around.
    Thanked by 1igneus
  • Arthur Connick
    Posts: 496
    We have most of the Supplement for England and Wales
    Do you have more than what's listed on the LMS site here?
  • Protasius
    Posts: 468
    In Germany at least for the Missal and Breviary I am very certain that there was no unified supplement for the whole country but instead there were appendices for single dioceses (a set of appendices for the missal can be found here). I can look into my teacher's Liber usualis on Monday, but it is well possible that it contains propers for the Archdiocese of Paderborn only.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    Arthur, that web page at LMS needs some fixing, I think. It has links pointing to CMAA's book of Communion antiphons instead of pointing to a Liber supplement. Is that what was intended?

    But we ought to try to get the national supplements for the Liber, the Graduale Romanum, and the Antiphonale scanned and available on-line in PDF format. If some of these are already done, CMAA would be happy to offer them on the web site. Maybe we can borrow people's Libers and get them scanned to add more countries.
    Thanked by 1Chrism
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,782
    @chonak I can get the web page fixed (I am a Rep of the LMS)

    @Arthur I have the Vineam de Aegypto Mass in my 1924 Graduale Romanum with markings. I have been meaning to look for the missing pieces in the various supplements I have collected.
    Thanked by 1chonak
  • Arthur Connick
    Posts: 496
    There's a 1909 supplement to the Graduale (696) with Solesmes rhythmic signs, Missae Propriae Dioecesium Angliae (47 pp.) which has the chants listed on the LMS site except for the Mass Our Lady 'in Porticu' which was approved in 1938 (missing Intr, Grad and Alle) and Bl. Hugh More beatified 1929 (missing Intr). St. Hilda's Alleluia is in the Cistercian Graduale.
    Thanked by 2igneus tomjaw
  • Arthur Connick
    Posts: 496
    With regard to the "national" supplements for the Liber Usualis, I am aware of the five listed below.
    USA (online at CMAA)
    Ireland (31 pp, with proper Mass of St. Patrick)
    France (ubiquitous in France in Paroissien Romain No. 800)
    Spain (94 pp. bound in Liber Usualis No. 780)
    Latin America (45 pp, with proper Mass for St. Turibius of Mogrovejo)

    Are there any others? A supplement for Scotland (Scotiae) would be very interesting.

    Thanked by 2igneus tomjaw
  • igneusigneus
    Posts: 387
    There's a 1913 Graduale supplement for the ecclesiastical province of Prague (i.e. Bohemia - back then part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, today one half of the Czech Republic).
    Thanked by 2tomjaw Arthur Connick
  • Arthur Connick
    Posts: 496
    igneus, thanks. I'm on the lookout for supplements like the one for Prague in your link.
  • ClemensRomanusClemensRomanus
    Posts: 1,023
    Here's the Festa Propria Societatis Mariae.
    1906 Festa Propria Societatis Mariae.pdf
    2M
    Thanked by 3igneus Arthur Connick tomjaw
  • Arthur Connick
    Posts: 496
    Festa Propria Societatis Mariae from Google Books is interesting. Notice that the rhythmic markings follow the convention used in the 1903 Liber Usualis. Also, the melodies are mostly not the same as the ones composed for the same chants after 1908. For example, compare the Mass, Fugæ D. N. J. C. in Ægyptum, on page [11] in the supplement to page 7** in the 1961 Graduale. The 1901 edition of this supplement is attributed to Dom Mocquereau himself, so I would assume he is the editor of the 1906 edition as well.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • bonniebede
    Posts: 756
    Is the supplement for Ireland online ?
    Thanked by 1Olivier
  • Arthur Connick
    Posts: 496
    I haven't seen the supplement for Ireland online. Note that the Mass propers for the feasts in the supplement for Ireland are all from the common of saints except for the Feast of St. Patrick which is here.
    Thanked by 2Olivier bonniebede
  • ClemensRomanusClemensRomanus
    Posts: 1,023
    This is all fascinating! I resurrected this thread because I was curious to see which of these OF Holy Land feasts/Votive Masses had EF counterparts and chants.

    http://www.custodia.org/default.asp?id=5871

    Weeping of the Lord
    St. Moses
    Manifestation of Our Lord at Emmaus
    Ss. Simeon and Cleopas
    Commemoration of the Resurrection of Lazarus
    Ss. Martha, Mary and Lazarus
    Commemoration of the Annunciation to the Shepherds
    Commemoration of the Beginning of the Miracles of the Lord
    Sermon on the Mount
  • aldrich
    Posts: 230
    It would really be good to consolidate all these supplements!
    Thanked by 2tomjaw CCooze
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,311
    I would check monastic sources for the house of Bethany.
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,782
    @Aldrich why not a social (SPECIAL) section on Gregobase?
  • StimsonInRehabStimsonInRehab
    Posts: 1,933
    @tomjaw Such a section sounds awesome, provided it is open bar.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,782
    @StimsonInRehab Damn auto correct 'SPECIAL'
  • aldrich
    Posts: 230
    @tomjaw Any place where these supplements can be stored and accessed would be great! Gregobase looks like an excellent place to start it!
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • aldrich
    Posts: 230
    Have we gotten around to consolidating all the LU supplements dispersed throughout the world?
  • OraLabora
    Posts: 218
    Graduale Romanum 688 for use in the Diocese of Quebec with propers for Canada. 1926.

    Ora
    Thanked by 1aldrich
  • Arthur Connick
    Posts: 496
    All of the chants for the Missæ Propriæ of Canada in No. 688 are included in the 1961 Graduale. But No. 688 is interesting for other reasons as I posted here.
    Thanked by 1aldrich
  • aldrich
    Posts: 230
    Is it possible to have the appendix from GR 688 scanned. The typesetting in the older editions are rather 'primitive'.
  • jsigur
    Posts: 12
    Does anyone have a copy of the Paroissien Romain with the Propers for the Archdiocese of Rouen? I need one chant from the 1936/1937 edition.
  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,190
    Check the BN ( Bibliothèque National) at Gallica.org. Its the French National library. I have found a number of chant books there.
  • jsigur
    Posts: 12
    I practically live on Gallica.org. I don't believe this particular Paroissien is uploaded. If someone has a hard copy it would save me the €30 + shipping to buy it myself.
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