Vatican II Hymnal — (Installment #5) — HYMN SELECTIONS COMPLETED ! ! ! !
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    Friends,

    The final hymn selections for the VATICAN II HYMNAL have been made. Therefore, if you have suggestions on changes or things you think should be included, speak now, or forever hold your peace!

    YOU WILL NOTICE that many of your fine suggestions have already been incorporated !!! So pat yourself on the back !!!

    URL LINK — Click here to view 153 Hymns (final selections) — do yourself a favor and view this link on Mozilla Firefox or Google Chrome
    image



    So far ... here's what's up ...

    Although still in need of slight revision, the READINGS & GRADUAL PROPERS section is 99% complete and you can view it here.

    A. Not yet complete is the section with the ORDINARY OF MASS (Latin/English) and Mass settings.
    B. Not yet complete are the free HARMONIZATIONS for every single hymn, which will be provided free online.
    C. Not yet complete are the Psalm antiphons.
    D. We are also need some final approval on several copyrights and approval by a Bishop (doctrinal)


    This PDF file (above) is in three (3) sections.

    image

    1. The formatting of many of the hymns in section 1 needs to be revised.
    2. My intent here was to make it VERY easy for musicians to choose ENTRANCE and EXIT hymns.
    In other words, it is so EASY and CLEAR, just about ANYONE can navigate and choose appropriate hymns for Entrance and Exit, even non-musicians.
    3. In my experience ENTRANCE and EXIT hymns should generally be very well known to the congregation. In particular, Feasts that only occur ONCE A YEAR should not introduce an ENTRANCE or EXIT hymn tune that the congregation does not know.
    4. My intent was NOT to have a billion different options, which is VERY confusing for many volunteer music directors.
    5. I tried to choose "easy, sturdy" hymns. Easy to play. "Sturdy" in that they always work, whether with just a cantor (without organ) OR with a huge choir (with organ), etc.
    6. I tried never to repeat melodies, EXCEPT on feast days that only occur once a year.
    7. Hopefully, for the "main" Masses, the propers will be sung for the Introit, so this section will not be needed. If there is a SPECIAL hymn not included here, this could be printed in a bulletin or Order of Worship.

    image

    1. In my experience, it is VERY DIFFICULT to find Communion Hymns in our modern books.

    2. That is why I give a MASSIVE LOAD of great ones here. This is good news, no??

    3. Unlike "section 1," the formatting of these hymns should be near perfect.

    image

    1. Again, because we always need Communion hymns, this section gives "seasonal" Communion Hymns. They can be used during certain Liturgical seasons.
    2. Most of these hymns are "meditative" and work well for Communion. However, if the congregation KNOWS these tunes, many would also make good Entrance or Exit hymns, based on what choice of REGISTRATION the organist makes.

    P.S. I "broke my rule" and included a beautiful version of the Pange Lingua chant, even though almost NOBODY knows this version. But it is gorgeous.
  • smvanroodesmvanroode
    Posts: 678
    This is indeed a gorgeous version of Pange lingua! I myself didn't discover this melody until just a few weeks ago, when I was browsing the chants available on www.christusrex.com: Pange lingua.

    By the way: in the third verse (recubens cum fratribus) and last verse (compar sit laudatio) the text and music are misaligned...
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    thanks to your kindness, smvanroode, it has been fixed --- it is in the process of uploading the new version as we speak! I'd give a great deal to know how those two staves got moved ... (sigh) ... but thanks to your kindness, it has been fixed.

    I like the version by the FSSP: FSSP seminarians singing the Pange Lingua (found in Vatican II Hymnal, above)

    In my mind, TU ES PETRUS is one of the greatest CD's ever made — I am very serious. I love it. I have a priest friend in the FSSP who sang on the CD (when he was a seminarian). The CD is loaded with fantastic chant, organ music, and polyphony, like the "Laetamini" Canon by G. M. Nanini: An example track from TU ES PETRUS
  • A couple of things I noticed by glancing, in no especial order:

    1. The tune for Conditor Alme Siderum seems to have an error. It ought to start "mi - do - mi - sol - SOL - la - fa - sol," but you have "mi - do - mi - sol - LA - la - fa - sol." Or if this is a variant, then I for one don't like it as much, since it tends to put musical stress on unaccented syllables like "the."

    2. Looking at the Easter sequence, I think it would be preferable if (a) the title did not have accent marks, and (b) the Latin were broken up into lines according to the way it is sung, not "Victimae Paschali / laudes immolent Christiani," etc.

    3. On p. 151 of the readings, there is a weird hyphen and period in the Gospel: "... without knowing where it came from -. although the servers ..."

    4. In terms of page design in the the missal section: (a) Paragraph indents in the readings are much too large. They should two ems or so, maybe three at the maximum. (b) Correspondingly, an extra one-third to one-half of a line or so between paragraphs would make them easier to digest. (c) I hope you will not retain the right-justified psalms. As one design book puts it, "To set a body of text with a right-justified margin and a ragged left one would be considered perverse by most people, although there are occasions (in advertising, for example) when it can be used to good effect. Generally the right justification facility is used in tables or to align small pieces of text, such as headers and footers, with the right margin." "Perverse" is, I think, how it cashes out here.

    5. I continue to hope you will include the text of the Exultet at the appropriate place. I can't think of a reason to leave it out. I also continue to hope that you will follow the standard practice, for readings with short forms, of putting the text that can be omitted into brackets, instead of expecting people to read only the bracketed text.

    6. In the hymns, greater care should be taken with consistency in certain formatting issues. Look at pp. 222 & 223 of the hymns: the verses of O Kind Creator, Bow Thine Ear are all set flush left, while on the facing page the verses of When I Survey the Wondrous Cross each have a leading indent of a half inch or so. The next four pages are all set flush, and then we get two pages with indents, and then back to flush again.

    7. In the headers of the hymns, it would make better sense to omit the words "Possible use" and things like "Communion hymn option" which appear all the time. It's distracting and limiting, and would much better be collected in a table at the end. It's also a surprising amount of page real estate to waste on something that 99.9% of the people (i.e., everybody except the one person who is actually selecting the hymns) have no need to ever concern themselves with. Maybe taking it out would allow you space to appropriately credit translators and tunewriters.

    8. Also in the hymns, it would look better if the fi ligature were used where those letters appear together. I see that this is done correctly in the readings; it looks much more professional.
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    Thanks for your thoughtful comments!

    1. The tune for Conditor Alme Siderum seems to have an error. It ought to start "mi - do - mi - sol - SOL - la - fa - sol," but you have "mi - do - mi - sol - LA - la - fa - sol." Or if this is a variant, then I for one don't like it as much, since it tends to put musical stress on unaccented syllables like "the."


    I have retained Pothier's original version, which is also used by all the modern Solesmes books and the New English Hymnal, etc.

    In the headers of the hymns, it would make better sense to omit the words "Possible use" and things like "Communion hymn option" which appear all the time.


    The problem is, if these are omitted, and you use a hymn at any other time except the "prescribed," people always complain and say you "messed up."

    Also in the hymns, it would look better if the fi ligature were used where those letters appear together.


    Not sure what this means: can you explain?

    Regarding some of the other formatting things, the decision was made early on: clarity and ease in reading is to be preferred to "conventions." This was the entire motivation for the hymnal (not kidding).
  • I have retained Pothier's original version, which is also used by all the modern Solesmes books and the New English Hymnal, etc.


    Oh, okay. I guess I'm familiar with the other version.

    The problem is, if these are omitted, and you use a hymn at any other time except the "prescribed," people always complain and say you "messed up."


    I tend to doubt that that would be the case, but what do I know. Perhaps the better course then would be to eliminate those header notations altogether. I'm not sure what they're even there for, since, as I say, only one person in the parish actually needs to concern himself with the issue of what is suggested for when -- and even for him, it would probably be easier to work out of a table or index rather than flipping through to see the header on each page.

    Not sure what this means: can you explain?


    Which part are you referring to?

    Regarding some of the other formatting things, the decision was made early on: clarity and ease in reading is to be preferred to "conventions." This was the entire motivation for the hymnal (not kidding).


    Oh, I believe it. But the truth is that typographical and design conventions have been developed over many years to promote clarity and ease of reading. The reason there is a "convention" again right-justifying substantial amounts of text is that right-justified text is difficult to read, because the eye expects a relatively uniform left margin to come back to. This is also why huge indents are not used in any professional typesetting, since when the eye scans all the way back to the left it finds only white space instead of text and then must cast about for where to begin. Similarly, text that can be omitted makes better sense to have in brackets, because the mind is more easily able to parse it as "parenthetical text" which one can skip if one is in a hurry. No one is accustomed to reading only for bracketed or parenthetical text and skipping the plaintext.
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    Sorry:

    Also in the hymns, it would look better if the fi ligature were used where those letters appear together.


    I don't get that.

    I tend to doubt that that would be the case, but what do I know.


    I promise you it happens! Especially it happened where I taught Catholic High School.

    Oh, okay. I guess I'm familiar with the other version.


    Most are: it's what's in the Liber.

    Similarly, text that can be omitted makes better sense to have in brackets, because the mind is more easily able to parse it as "parenthetical text" which one can skip if one is in a hurry. No one is accustomed to reading only for bracketed or parenthetical text and skipping the plaintext.


    The method I use is identical to GIA's "Ritual Song."

    Regarding "only one person needs to know such-and-such," that is probably true --- however, my goal is to make that person's life VERY EASY --- and save them struggling like I did for years and years.

    You simply would not believe what many music directors do not know --- unless I'm an exception and I'm just really, really dumb (not ruling that out !!!!)

    THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR INPUT !!!!!!
  • It's what's shown here as the difference between the left and right columns (the fi is the top line):

    hmm, trying to get this image to display

    (See further Wikipedia:Typographic ligature.)

    Programs like Pagemaker ought to do this automatically, though if you're importing the lyics along with the music then you might have to go about it differently. It's a minor point, but I always look for it to see how detailed a book's typesetters have been ;)
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    I am afraid I still do not understand this particular point...I will continue to consider strongly any suggestions you make. (not kidding)
  • DougS
    Posts: 793
    Jeff, he's referring to the spacing between "f" and "i" whenever the two letters appear together. As the illustration shows, one can leave the kerning in the font, or if I understand correctly, use a ligature.

    (Though I'm not sure why one is "better" typesetting than the other)
  • image

    Right, it looks better not to have the dot of the i squished in next to the curve of the f. (There are also fj ligatures for the same reason, in case you're writing about fjords or something ;). As I say, you already have the ligatures in the missal portion, since good pagesetting software is smart enough to do them automatically (I believe the newest version of MS Word can now do this). Consistency as well as attractive typography would suggest having them in the hymns as well.

    (And despite claiming "no especial order" in my first post, I did indeed put this point in the position where it belonged among my remarks -- last.)
  • TCJ
    Posts: 601
    Okay, my one hymn that I'll suggest since I haven't put in a request yet.

    The Angel Gabriel from Heaven Came
  • godfrey
    Posts: 19
    I am just wondering if you are attempting to use inclusive language in some places or not? I just noticing inconsistencies in the texts.

    In, "Holy, Holy, Holy," verse 3, the text has:

    "Holy, holy, holy! Though the darkness hide thee, though the sinful human eye thy glory may not see."

    The original is usually:

    "Holy, holy, holy! Though the darkness hide thee, though the of sinful man thy glory may not see."

    In, "Hark! The Heard Angels Sing," verse 2, the text has:

    "Pleased with us in flesh to dwell."

    The original is usually:

    "Please as man with man to dwell."
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    curt jester: where is that hymn located?

    godfrey: I can certainly look at those instances, but I cannot tell you where I got them --- I took from SO MANY different sources....

    Mark: can you get me a copy of the new ICEL Exsultet?

    Regarding special ceremonies (like weddings), in my view, these still need to made as "inserts" because each congregation has their own ceremonies, their own songs, etc.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,281
    re: Inclusive language
    I know this issue is contentious for many, and I would not advocate:
    -changing the official translation of official texts
    -making changes so great as to seriously affect the rhythm, rhyme, or meaning of the original English poetry
    But I do have to say-
    The use of male-specific language when non-male-specific people are meant is going to cause a hurdle for the adoption of this hymnal among parishes which most need it.

    You don't want easily-fixed (and, from an orthodoxy standpoint, relatively unimportant) issues to be the cause of parishes not using the resource "for pastoral reasons."
    This is probably the best new parish music resource in a generation. I would suggest not causing creating a hindrance to its adoption.
  • Jeffrey:

    I'm of course not privy to the latest missal updates, so the most recent "final" text I've seen for the Exultet is on pp. 176-179 (long form) or 180-182 (short form) of the pdf here.
  • Jeff,

    Many thanks for your efforts on this project and for being so open to suggestions.

    I've noticed the omission of a couple of classics from the old Pius X Hymnal, for example, "Be Thou My Vision" set to the tune by Desrocquettes (which I prefer to Slane) and the wonderful text "Spirit Seeking Light and Beauty" by Janet Erskine Stuart, RSCJ. I know you can't include everything but these wonderful hymns should not have faded from parish use.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 7,440
    I would suggest two reasons to avoid using "inclusive-language" versions of hymns.

    First, changing well-known texts is creepy: it's an attempt to pull a con job on our memories, to pass off something as familiar when it's been subtly altered.

    It is precisely Orwellian. (For those who haven't read 1984, the protagonist's job is to rewrite history: he revises old newspaper stories and books, including the photos, to conform to the latest political correctness.)

    Second, "inclusive-language" texts may be under copyright protection by the publisher who made the changes.
  • Hi Jeff,

    I know that there was conversation about the things I'm going to mention on another thread, but I haven't had time to chime in with my two cents about the matter, nor have I had time to read all of your responses to the matter. I bring up the things below, though, to voice what a potential buyer of a goodly number of hymnals has to say about the project at this point in the venture.

    I agree with others that separate verses on separate music is weird. It wouldn't stop me from buying it because I think the congregation could adapt, but I do think that visitors to the parish would be confused by the matter. That said, I read a bit of your responses/reasoning in other threads, but just wanted to add my vote to the "I don't prefer this" pile.

    That said, I think the header has cleaned up the page considerably, but again, I think it's too much information. Nearly all the text in the header is useful information for a music director to know (and could therefore be placed in a well-designed appendix), not the congregation. If your concern is some level of catechesis for the congregation, stick to the stuff that will make the true nature of music in the Roman rite readily evident through use and implementation. It seems to me that all the explanatory stuff in the midst of the hymnal falls prey to the same trap as the dearth of modern liturgy: didacticism. Liturgy teaches by doing, redoing, experiencing and re-experiencing, not by talking. Too many words make people tune out, and I think you'd be more effective in reaching your catechetical goals by making verbalized explanations few and far between and figuring out a way to say it simply in the presentation of the material itself. Perhaps music directors need these directions - the congregation doesn't.

    God bless your continued efforts - I am very excited about this project.

    JD
  • P.S. I second everything that Chonak said about inclusive language. It should be noted that the St. Michael hymnal has done so well precisely because it put forth versions of hymns from the pre-inclusive language era.
  • Jeff, I'm not sure how up to date it is, but the ICEL website has the new Exsultet.
  • Claire H
    Posts: 325
    Perhaps this has already been mentioned/discussed, but did you consider an alphabetical organization of the hymns (at least within each sub section)?
  • Claire H
    Posts: 325
    If it has already been discussed, I apologize (haven't had time to read all the replies on these threads). What a thrilling project this hymnal is!
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    I would suggest two reasons to avoid using "inclusive-language" versions of hymns.


    Hello!

    QUESTION

    Who said anything about using "inclusive-language" hymns?

    Where does this occur and what (or whose) hymnal are we talking about here?

    Please cite specific examples. THANKS!

    Godfrey kindly pointed out two variants that could be improved by going to a "more original" version, and I will do this.

    But who said anything about inclusive language?

    I'm not understanding here ....
  • GIA's Worship Hymnal 3rd edition makes changes in "Holy, Holy, Holy" and "Hark the Herald Angels Sing" in both the places godfrey pointed out. In the former, Worship III says "Though the eye made blind by sin" instead of the traditional "Though the eye of sinful man." In the latter, Worship III says "Pleased as man with us to dwell," instead of the traditional "Pleased as man with men to dwell." Seems like inclusive language to me.
    (Worship III also changes all the "thee"s and "thou"s to "you"s which is perhaps not wrong, but also annoying.)
  • I would like to put my vote down for not reprinting the music for each verse. I have sung from a lot of different hymnals from a lot of different denominations, and the current format for the Vatican II hymnal hymns is more than confusing - it looks a bit unprofessional, if only because no one else in the hymn publishing business prints hymns that way. Plus it is not an economical use of space.

    Also, this may have been addressed before, and forgive me if it has, but why not print the 4 part harmony for the hymns? If the music was not repeated for each verse, there would be plenty of space to print the harmony. Printing the 4 part harmony would eliminate the need for a choir edition, and the organist (or hired strings/brass for Easter) could play from any hymnal that happened to be laying around if need arose. And (wonder of wonders) perhaps even a congregation member might feel like singing harmony some Sunday.

    I also think the header over the hymns seems busy. I would eliminate it altogether. The people picking the hymns will know what liturgical season a hymn belongs in, and any one else's opinion on the matter is completely irrelevant.

    Congratulations on this project though - it is wonderful!
  • bshonka
    Posts: 6
    I guess there is no room for 1 more hymn? Hail Thee Festival Day is such a gorgeous hymn. My former congregation just loved it.
  • Jeff,

    Keep on going! What a labor of love.

    PLEASE, no inclusive language stuff. That's part of what's wrong with hymnody today -- no respect for textual tradition, the beauty of language, and long-standing English usage. "Progressives" aren't going to look at your hymnal for two seconds, so you don't have to try to please them; the ones who will try to adopt your book are the ones who are aware that the salvation of sacred music lies in reconnecting with the past, for the benefit of the future. We have to escape our self-made bubble of late modernity. Not that this is very easy to do, but we will perish without the effort.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 7,967
    JO

    Wearing my professional typesetters hat, less is more, and conventions are critical. I vote no headers, four part harmony, 1 hymm per page, absolutely NO inclusive language, and look at the 1940 as a model for excellent readability by SATB choirs. Bravo on this effort. Are you including music for the propers?
  • RobertRobert
    Posts: 338
    This is a noble effort and looks very promising!

    I would add my voice to those who would prefer more white space, standard hymn layout and less information. Melody line only is fine for a pew edition.

    It seems to me that the current layout with music for each verse is busy, confusing and makes it harder rather than easier to read. Hymnal conventions have come into being for a reason, I would say. Really, what would be most useful would be a bunch of hymns in alphabetical order, and leave the suggestions for when to use them for the index.

    A layout like this: http://www.hymnsandcarolsofchristmas.com/Hymns_and_Carols/Images/Winkworth-Chorale/Cong/211-Great_God.jpg is very clean, simple and beautiful, and easy to sing from; would you consider going more toward that kind of direction in terms of layout?
  • jp411
    Posts: 9
    I agree with Francis and Robert. Standard hymn layout is a must! And an absolute NO to inclusive language. I also think that the information in the headers is unnecessary and a poor use of space. It could be put in the back of the book. A cleaner, less cluttered look would be much appreciated.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 7,440
    +1 for Hail Thee Festival Day -- or is the Vaughan Williams setting under copyright?
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 7,967
    all rvw is still under copyright i believe
  • Jeff: Can you tell us what will be available in terms of an accompaniment book?
  • TCJ
    Posts: 601
    JMO -

    The Angel Gabriel from Heaven Came I found in OCP's 2009-2010 Advent-Lent Today's Missal. An older version of the words can be found here, however: http://www.oremus.org/hymnal/t/t071.html . I'm certainly not a big fan of OCP but they have some decent stuff in there at times! As long as I'm at it, why not O Come, Divine Messiah as well? That, too, I found in the same OCP book although I'm sure that could be found elsewhere as well. Words here are slightly different than OCP: http://www.chantcd.com/lyrics/come_divine_messiah.htm . It did seem like there weren't a lot of Advent hymns in that preview I looked through so adding another one couldn't hurt. Of course, maybe more were added since the last time I looked.

    I also give another vote to Hail Thee, Festival Day.

    Thanks for all the work. I'm really looking forward to the finished product.
  • I have to say it Jeff. I'm a big fan of the Rorate Caeli being placed into the Advent Section. I use it on Advent IV.
    Also, on hymns like "To Jesus Christ Our Sovereign King", you have the refrain at the very top instead of after the verse. Why is that? Curious.
    BMP
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    Thanks for all these great and helpful comments!

    Just to clarify: my hymnal does not use inclusive language, nor are we considering doing so.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,281
    As a sidenote to the language issue-
    It was pointed out earler that you apparently have some vestigial inclusivity, stemming from your source material (sometimes the 1982?).
    I put together a small hymnal for a interdenominational house-church a while ago, and kept running into the problem of different people knowing different versions of the same hymn.
    If your goal is something like authenticity or making sure you have the ur-version of each text, I would do a few minutes of research on each one.
    The website is poorly put together, but Oremus hymnal is a great resource for original texts. Also, Wikipedia.
    You'd be surprused how many different versions there are of what seems like the same text, even within "traditional" sources.
  • Erik P
    Posts: 152
    another vote for "Hail Thee, Festival Day"

    also, I understand the logic for trying to relieve the difficulty of reading the later verses of a hymn, but I believe that this solution creates more confusion. Also, from a practicality standpoint, most parishes that sing hymns hardly sing more than 3 verses, since the hymn singing usually accompanies some other liturgical action. I think to make this dramatic formatting change to accommodate the less-often sung verses will take up a lot more space. I just think that when space is a premium in a huge book like this, you don't want to waste space on material that won't be used as much. just my personal opinion, so take it for what it's worth :)

    glad to help with any typesetting, but only if its in Sibelius

    good luck!!
  • Mike R
    Posts: 106
    Is there an index available? I could much more easily "see" what's missing if I'm looking at a list rather than having to page through the hymnal to see where a certain hymn is (example: I initially thought "At the Lamb's High Feast We Sing" was missing, because using it as a Communion hymn did not occur to me).
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    Dear Mike R,

    There is THIS INDEX, but I ask you to please ignore my (private) notes that I've written to myself.
  • I'm very fond of "O Lord with Wondrous Mystery" Gannon/Andriessen, though it's probably still under copyright.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 7,967
    Jenny:

    I use that piece a lot for Offertory.
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    From a friend:

    For General/Communion:

    'O God of Earth and Altar' (Lllangloffan) text is by G K Chesterton
    'My Faith Looks Up to Thee' (Olivet)
    'Let Thy Blood in Mercy Poured' (Luise) Crueger and Brownell
    'Draw Nigh and Take the Body of the Lord' to Gibbon's Song 46
    'Here, O My Lord' to Peel Castle or Nyack
    'In Heavenly Love Abiding' Nyland
    'Deck Thyself, My Soul, with Gladness' Schmuecke dich
    'My God, Accept my Heart this Day' Song 67
    'I Sought the Lord, and Afterward I knew' to 'Faith' by J. H. Moyer
    'Blest are the Pure in Heart' to Franconia

    'At the Name of Jesus' really should be to be to King's Weston. It's far and away the most known tune in my experience.

    These are favorites, as well:
    'Beautiful Saviour/Fairest Lord Jesus' to St. Elizabeth
    'O Sacrament Most Holy' Fulda
    'Panis Angelicus' Sacris Solemnis
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,281
    1
    Tune names should be either in ALL CAPS (Traditional) or in Small Caps (my preference).
    (I see this has been done in the latter sections)

    2
    Meters should be included. Along with a metrical index in the back.
    (I see this has also been done in the latter sections)

    3
    I find the hymn numbers being at the bottom a little weird

    4
    Intentionally blank pages should say
    "This page intentionally left blank"
    instead of
    "Ignore this page"

    5
    Indenting of refrains (which doesn't seem consistent) looks weird

    6
    After all the hoopla about the separate music for each verse thing, I'm confused about the choice for The First Nowell. Sure, everyone knows the tune, but as the song goes on the verses get less and less familiar, and I have never been in a congregation where the late verses are sung with the text lined up properly by everyone.

    7
    odd indenting here and there. For example, 149 He, Who Gave His Life For Us. Why are 2, 3, 4 indented?

    8
    I saw two versions of Pange Lingua, neither one of which seemed to be the traditional melody. Did I miss it? Am I misinformed on what the traditional melody is?

    9
    The arrangement seems odd: Hymns for parts of Mass being a higher level category than for seasons? So to find the Christmas music, I'd have to look at Entrance hymns, for Christmas... then Communion hymns, for Christmas...

    10
    re:234 Is that really the best English version of O Filii et Filiae? I've never heard it sung in 3. I've always heard it straight.

    11
    The tune for O Sanctissima is called "Sicillian Mariners."
    "O Du Frohliche" was a Christmas hymn text later associated with that Tune.
    See http://www.hymnary.org/tune/sicilian_mariners

    12
    Salve Regina may be in Mode V, but I don't think the tune should be called "Mode V"
    Same with Regina Coeli in Mode VI.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,281
    13
    Verse Numbers should all align-left and stack one a top each other.
  • TCJ
    Posts: 601
    There is a typo on Hail Holy Queen Enthroned Above. The H is missing in "Enthroned" ("Entroned").

    Speaking of the hoopla Adam mentioned, Ye Sons and Daughters of the King doesn't follow the rule you have everywhere else. Namely, all nine verses are directly under the music. While that doesn't bother me, it's not in keeping with the pattern.

    I've only done a quick glance (you're right, shame for bugging us during Holy Week!) so perhaps I've missed some, but I Received the Living God seems to break away from the pattern of typical hymns and chants that I see elsewhere. Perhaps you have a different harmony to it, but I find the one in my church's hymnal to be pretty awful. It truly doesn't sound like a hymn to me.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,281
    Additionally:
    I'm not sure how I feel about not having the 4-parts in the pew edition.
    But I'm absolutely sure I want you to have a choir edition available which does have harmonizations etc.
    Are there plans to make that available?


    (PS: That, and accomp. editions, etc, are the reasons to have hymns numbered, rather than pages numbered. Pagination might vary from the pew version to the choir version to the organists versions).
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 7,967
    Adam is right... item numbers, not page numbers... PLEASE!
  • I think page numbers are good, if there is one hymn per page. But -- notwithstanding where they are in the rest of the book -- for the hymns they should be up at the top next to the titles. Otherwise you will forever be stuck referring to "The hymn on page 127," because nobody will have any idea how to find "hymn 127."
  • I don't recall seeing Parce Domine in the Lenten section. Is there a reason why this one was left out, or did I miss it somewhere?