Reproaches with organ part for accompaniment-dependent choir?
  • music123
    Posts: 100
    Hello everyone,

    I have gotten the go-ahead to do the Reproaches this year from my pastor. Does anyone know of a version of the Reproaches with organ accompaniment? This could be the version from the Sacramentary, or really anything, as long as it is not too difficult.

    Thank you,

    Julianna
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    Abbé Ferdinand Portier harmonized these, I think, but the books are very expensive.

    They are the new ones, from Solesmes: Abbaye Saint-Pierre de Solesmes, 1984

    I don't think any Pre-Vatican II composer set these, because organ accompaniment was never used on Good Friday before the Council (I don't believe).
  • music123
    Posts: 100
    Thanks JMO. That makes sense.

    Someone on this site mentioned the version in Worship II. I have one of those, and I just ordered the organ accompaniment hoping it would be in there. If it isn't, I guess I'll figure something out and I can probably use the accompaniment book another time.

    I'm sure my choir could get the hang of this eventually, but we don't have a lot of time left and I have thrown several new things at them this year (including the Victimae Paschali Laudes....)

    Julianna
  • Adam Schwend
    Posts: 203
    The Improperia is not particularly harmonically difficult. I would assume a reasonable organist would be able to figure out the chord structure on their own. Your average parish organist may need a few hours to figure out the chord structure, but methinks that shouldn't be too difficult.
  • JDE
    Posts: 588
    There is also a very serviceable version by Gary Penkala available from Cantica Nova Publications. We use it at my parish. It sits a bit low, so if you don't have a low-voice soloist to do the reproaching, just raise it up a minor third and sing it higher. It has relatively easy, memorable refrains, so learning it will be easier than the chant version and could serve as a bridge to the chant.
  • Joseph Michael
    Posts: 258
    I would urge you (and the choir) to make a leap of faith and just sing them without accompaniment. So what if there is a wrong pitch? It is chant. And it cannot be hurt or broken. And....it's more fun!
  • music123
    Posts: 100
    Thanks all for your input. This year it looks like we'll do the version out of Worship II, which looks doable. In the future...we'll see! I may check out that Gary Penkala version at some point.
  • Mark M.Mark M.
    Posts: 632
    I'm bumping this thread to mention this current post about the Improperia/Reproaches at the Chant Café. As I noted in the comments, this version — as performed by Chanticleer, it seems — has an organ drone throughout. Beautiful, I think! But I'm not sure how authentic, or non-traditional, etc., this sort of approach is. Would appreciate everyone's thoughts here.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,821
    Start singing the chant a cappella... you'll never go back once you
    experience how simple and beautiful it is.
  • Mark M.Mark M.
    Posts: 632
    I agree. But I had never heard a drone bass accompaniment like this before, and it struck me as interesting and beautiful, even if perhaps somewhat inauthentic.
  • Jeffrey TuckerJeffrey Tucker
    Posts: 3,624
    Yes, the drone is just wonderful!
  • RobertRobert
    Posts: 343
    We'll be doing the organ drone - just a single low pitch, quintflute. It should be barely perceptible to the congregation but will save us from ending up in a different key. The reproaches are long, hard work, and our schola just can't plow through the whole thing without dropping pitch.
  • Tiffany G
    Posts: 1
    Fr. Samuel Weber has the improperia in English with organ accompaniment if you wish. It it translated using the tones from the Latin that Chanticleer is singing with the drone so that could easily be used if English is the wish. In fact, I may actually use it next year with the drone! Something perhaps to look into for 2012.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,821
    yes, we are using the drone too... i always stop the keys with a pencil so i can conduct. I will probably use the drone of a fifth since it is very effective against the mixolydian/dorian swap of the melody.
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    I have to vote Team Joseph Michael and Team francis on this one:

    Try it a cappella! If it is pitched properly, the pitch dropping problems are minimal.

    Here is another idea, which I submit with trepidation since it is a very "workmanlike" one. Why not do the Reproaches to a psalm tone, and a simple chordal Hagios? I've attached one that I use at my parish. I started it with three reasons in mind: 1) No instruments on Good Friday: I wanted it to be a stark as possible; 2) I wanted the congregation to be able to join in before/during/after the Veneration, because there is a premium at my place on the p-i-ps being able to sing almost everything; 3) The Reproaches had never been done here before, and I wanted a home run since it is a such an amazing text.

    See what you think, but I think almost any choir could do it, assuming you have SATB resources (even meager ones!) One piece of advice: I would pitch everything up a whole step from written (i.e., Hagios in e minor rather than the written d minor; also, start the chant with "la" as a B natural.)
    Reproaches.pdf
    87K
  • Mark M.Mark M.
    Posts: 632
    The "improperia" thread over at the Café is fading, so I thought I'd repost here a question I posed over there:

    Is there any particular significance to the responses being presented in both Greek and Latin? I see that this is an ancient text, probably penned by someone in the eastern Church. I didn't even know that there was any Greek chant to be found in the Gregorian Missal, aside from the Kyrie.

    I'm still absolutely struck by the beauty of this chant. At age 40, I'm among many Catholics who had never heard this before. Ever. I'm grateful to Jeffrey for having posted the recording as he did.
  • Mark P.
    Posts: 248
    My guess is that the Improperia in Greek and Latin was part of the transition of the liturgy being rendered in the vernacular (Latin) rather than the liturgical language (Greek).
  • ClemensRomanusClemensRomanus
    Posts: 1,023
    From what I remember reading, the Improperia in Greek dates to the time of Byzantine occupation of Rome, ca.6th-8th century. There was, as Mark P. said, many Greek speakers in Rome at that time. That's why at Papal liturgies, especially during Holy Week, one of the Lessons is usually still chanted in Greek.
  • Mark M.Mark M.
    Posts: 632
    Thanks, Mark P. And Clemens.

    I was going to ask a follow-up question about the whole supposed anti-Semitic undertones of the Improperia, but I see that that was already discussed at the Café in the comments on a post I managed to miss from last month, and in another article referenced therein.
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