A wimpy Sanctus
  • Joseph Michael
    Posts: 258
    I know that many will want to throw rocks at me for saying this, but I believe that the (recommended) new Missal text setting of the "Holy" using Sanctus XVIII is not a good wedding of text and tune. I love chant. Certainly, one can sing the new setting musically. But because of the change in language--"Sanctus" to "Holy"--the drama is gone when using this chant melody. When sung to the Sanctus XVIII melody, the "..nct..." in the Latin adds a natural accent to the text that is impossible to achieve with the (mellow sounding?) "Holy". Using the Latin text, this seemingly "plain" chant takes on a very active mode. Singing that triple "Sanctus" is as if one were to shout "Awake!" and easily conjures up Isaiah's vision. In English, it is just too laid back. Active becomes passive. I hope to see our new text set to original, newly composed chant--not adaptations of the Latin originals. An example of a good original treatment of English and chant can be found in David Hurd's "Holy" from the "New Plainsong Mass". Here, the natural accents of the English are perfectly matched with the rhythm and melody of the chant. The Theodore Marier settings do this, also. Another example, using a more metrical setting, can be found in Proulx's "Community Mass".
  • Maureen
    Posts: 679
    Well, you could always hit that "Ho!" really hard, like you're going to yell "Sirrah!" right afterward. That'll wake 'em up. After all, it is a classic English syllable of exclamation. :)
  • Joseph Michael
    Posts: 258
    Oh, I don't want to hit the poor "Ho-ly" :) Just my opinion that the word "Holy" with THIS chant lacks the "bite" that comes with the Latin.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,848
    nothing will ever be as good as "the chant"
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,513
    The sock-it-to-em Sanctus.
  • SkirpRSkirpR
    Posts: 854
    I agree, but I suspect (or maybe read) that the ICEL music committee was hoping to make the English chant as close to the Latin as possible, one reason being that if English-speaking Catholics became familiar with it in English it would make it much easier for them to become familiar (or re-familiar) with it in Latin.

    Of course, that only works if English-speaking Catholics become familiar with the new English settings - something that won't happen in parishes that won't use them because they a) don't like chant or b) think that it sounds awkward [which I'll again admit it kind-of does].
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    Actually, if anything, it would be more like pelted with marshmallows. With due respect to the music committee (and I'm sure SkirpR's contention is correct), it will be tough to teach people to sing this well: I realize that the Latin original also has this falling on a weak syllable, but the "hard E" vowel in English is much more difficult to control/interpret than the "u" in Latin. The Meinrad Kyriale solution, while not a favorite of mine, would have been a better choice, IMHO.
  • Jeffrey TuckerJeffrey Tucker
    Posts: 3,624
    The best thing about this Sanctus is that it cries out for a move to Latin.
  • DougS
    Posts: 793
    At a presentation I attended, Fr. Columba Kelly sang the Latin version quite rapidly, something I had never really heard before. If the English setting begins with a zip on the "Ho" and then moves right along, I think it can work well.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    I'm uncomfortable with the English Kyrie being different from the Latin Kyrie on the same page...seems to encourage diversity by having different note lengths.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,848
    FNJ:

    Yea... I agree. Too much diversity.
  • ossian1898ossian1898
    Posts: 142
    I've always noticed that chant in English will oftentimes be aenemic. I guess its better than nothing, but its not ideal.
  • Ralph BednarzRalph Bednarz
    Posts: 493
    Let the ictic arsic energy precede the first "Ho" -then relax everything. its a beautiful thing, Nuncle.
    keep a good clip on it.
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