Propers for the Ordinary Form in Latin
  • pitkiwi
    Posts: 23
    I am in the very early planning stages of organizing a regularly occurring Mass in Latin in the Ordinary Form. We have a priest and the church, but we need music resources. All of the material out there is quite overwhelming. I have resources for the Commons of the Mass, but not the propers. I don't really know where to look for that. Is it available anywhere?

    Any help you can offer me would be wonderful! Thanks!
  • Aristotle EsguerraAristotle Esguerra
    Posts: 1,186
    The following volume contains the Latin Propers in Gregorian Chant for Sundays and many holy days according to the Ordinary Form:

    Gregorian Missal for Sundays (99.4MB PDF)

    Others who view this, please feel please chime in with additional Ordinary Form–proper resources in Latin.
  • MarkThompson
    Posts: 768
    One shouldn't miss http://isaacjogues.org/chants/.
  • Jeffrey TuckerJeffrey Tucker
    Posts: 3,624
    try this
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,791
    Yikes, Jeff! Try that if you want your computer to lock up trying to download a very large pdf file. Aristotle has already provided the GMfS above (and was courteous enough to label the link).
  • pitkiwi
    Posts: 23
    Is there a Latin Graduale Simplex that would be easier for smaller, untrained groups to sing?
  • JahazaJahaza
    Posts: 470
    Err, yes, the Graduale Simplex.
  • pitkiwi
    Posts: 23
    I guess I meant free online, sorry. I will invest in this if it isn't available online.
  • JahazaJahaza
    Posts: 470
    Chants Abreges is available free online for the Graduals and Alleluias, but it is keyed to the old rite. I'm not sure how much overlap there is.

    There are a number of similar books on the CMAA web site (Rice, Rossini, et.c), but as far as I know, there is not a free Latin simplified Gradual for the OF.

    Somewhere there's a key (spreadsheet?) floating around cross referencing the Liber Usualis 1962 and the modern Graduale.
    Thanked by 1Jes
  • pitkiwi
    Posts: 23
    Is there a website that has the full lectionary in Latin?
  • JahazaJahaza
    Posts: 470
    Not as far as I know. The Midwest Theological Forum has cut the price on their Novus Ordo Latin Lectionary from $900 to $700. ;)

    The readings from the new rite use the Nova Vulgata, but the lectionary makes small changes, e.g. to the beginning of readings, adding "In diebus illis".
  • rich_enough
    Posts: 1,044
    You might find this discussion from a couple of months ago helpful.

    As indicated in the above discussion, you can find a free .pdf of the 2002 edition of the OF Roman Missal in Latin here. Note that it does not include the readings.
  • MarkThompson
    Posts: 768
    It is also formatted terribly, if that's the one I'm thinking of. There is an html version here.
  • pitkiwi
    Posts: 23
    If I have the English lectionary, as well as the Latin scripture translation that is used for the Latin lectionary, would there be an easy way for me to format the Latin text for use at Mass? (at least until we can afford to purchase the lectionary)
  • Arthur Connick
    Posts: 496
    Mark Thompson's link is to the English language pages on the clerus.org website. If you go to the Portugese language section (which is in French for some reason), it's much easier to navigate to the readings for any particular day with the option to flip the translation to English (RSV) and Latin (Nova vulgata, or Vulgate). Not a lectionary, strictly speaking, but pretty close.
  • pitkiwi
    Posts: 23
    I have found a priest who owns the Latin Lectionary, so I have a copy.

    Where can I get chant settings for the introit?
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,577
    regularly occurring Mass in Latin

    So you are asking for music in Latin.

    Where can I get chant settings for the introit?

    According to the General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM 48, 61, 62, 74, 87)
    the first choice for the Propers in Latin for the Post-Vatican-Two Mass
    are found in any of the three following ...
    (1) Graduale Romanum (GR), published 1974,
    a reorganization of the previous Graduale-1961 to fit the three-year cycle;
    (2) Graduale Triplex (GT), published 1979,
    layout identical to GR,
    manuscript-family markings from the 900s over-lay the square-notes,
    one above (black Laon MS), one below (red St Gall MS).
    (3) Gregorian Missal (GM), published 1990,
    has a subset of the GR, only has Sundays and feast days.
    There is no free online copy of the GR, nor the GT.
    The GM is available for free, and Aristotle and Jeffrey already pointed you to it.
    You have said this material is too difficult.

    According to the General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM as above)
    the second choice for the Propers in Latin for the Post-Vatican-Two Mass
    are found in ...
    the Graduale Simplex (GS).
    There are formularies for each season, you can learn and use one or more for each season.
    Everything is structured like responsorial psalms,
    a short Latin text set to a one-note-per-syllable chant melody which the congregation sings
    in between the cantor or choir singing a Latin pointed psalm verse.
    You have said this material costs too much.

    You are out of Latin choices.
  • Protasius
    Posts: 468
    For the Sundays and some feasts you can find material on http://gregor-und-taube.de/html/materialien.htm, which contains the melody in square notation, corrected following the proposals in ,,Beiträge zur Gregorianik" and the neumes of St. Gall; and a so-called Graduale Duplex http://gregorianik.org/gradualeduplex.htm, that is similar to the other one but has one page per chant and a bigger part of them organized in one file so you don't have to use a new file each week.
  • MarkThompson
    Posts: 768
    That would be

    http://gregor-und-taube.de/html/materialien.htm

    and

    http://gregorianik.org/gradualeduplex.htm
  • pitkiwi
    Posts: 23
    Today's Mass, the first, was a success! Looking to the future, I am wondering if any of the following chant settings are available:

    The second Greeting: "Gratia vobis et pax a Deo Patre nostro et Domino Iesu Christo."
    Penitential Rite C
    Template tone for the Collect
    The Eucharistic Prayers (at the very least, the Roman Canon, but I would like to have the main 4, plus the Reconciliation prayers)
    Template tone for the preface.
    The introduction for the Pater Noster
    The prayer between the Pater Noster and the embolism: Libera nos...
    The prayer of the sign of peace: "Domine Iesu Christe, qui dixisti Apostolis tuis..."
    Template tone for the Postcommunion

    I don't know if some of these even exist, but any help would be appreciated!
  • smvanroodesmvanroode
    Posts: 991
    @pitkiwi: here's what I could find on my computer:
    - introductio the to Pater noster
    - Libera nos ...
    - Penitential Rite C (I have another melody too, but this need to be typeset first)

    more to come...
    QuiMissus.pdf
    320K
    Praeceptis.pdf
    99K
    LiberaNos.pdf
    273K
  • smvanroodesmvanroode
    Posts: 991
    And here are some other items I have:
    - Prayer of the sign of peace
    - Another melody of Penitential Rite C (only a scan)

    The other items you are looking for can be found in the Orde missae in cantu, available from Solesmes (that's where I got most of them from).
    QuiMissus2.pdf
    129K
    RitusPacis.pdf
    299K
  • pitkiwi
    Posts: 23
    Thanks, those are great!

    Okay, so thus far I still need the following:

    The second Greeting: "Gratia vobis et pax a Deo Patre nostro et Domino Iesu Christo."
    Template tone for the Collect
    The Eucharistic Prayers (at the very least, the Roman Canon, but I would like to have the main 4, plus the Reconciliation prayers)
    Template tone for the preface
    Template tone for the Postcommunion
  • Pedro d'Aquino
    Posts: 128
    If you look in the Gregorian Missal for Sundays you'll find:
    The second Greeting ("Gratia vobis et pax...") on p. 8

    Tones for the orations, prefaces and Eucharistic Prayers can be found in the Missale Romanum (Editio iuxta typicam tertiam), the cheapest edition of which is published by Midwest Theological Forum and is on sale now for $120 (ISBN : 978-1-890177-73-7).
  • mahrt
    Posts: 517
    For liturgical use, I recommend staying with the Graduale Romanum, or Gregorian Missal, and not Gregor und Taube. Those versions are highly speculative, and in some cases (Deus in loco sancto suo), they are a bit crazy. Many cases are just a few notes different from GR, differences which are trivial and don't change the sense of the melody; in other cases, according to my subjective view, the changes that do make a difference are worse than GR. I would heartily support the project for its research value, but that does not mean that these should replace the established versions of the melodies. In any case I would object to describing these versions as "corrected" as if the versions of GR were in error and were now corrected.
  • pitkiwi
    Posts: 23
    I forgot, I also need a chant setting for the Per Ipsum, is there one available?
  • mahrt
    Posts: 517
    The chant for the per ipsum would be in the missal, since it is sung by the priest.
  • pitkiwi
    Posts: 23
    Right, but the problem is that we do not have money for a missal as of yet, so we are relying on printed pages until we can afford one.
  • rich_enough
    Posts: 1,044
    Dr. Mahrt makes a very good point about the "corrected" version of the chant. It also makes sense to use the regular Vatican / Solesmes editions because that is what the vast majority of singers who have sung the chant are already familiar with. If you want people to join you, it can be very confusing to use another edition.
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    Thank you Dr. Marht. I didn't know what to do with different notes I found in Gregor und Taube. I think I will stick with GR.
    (Just an example: I was looking at 'Intrroibo' communio, in GT it start with sol -la, instead of sol-do', and on the word Dei, it's ti-re'-ti, instead of la-re'-do. )

    I use Gregor and Taube for the rhythm, and I was wondering if the ancient neums are used mostly for rhythmic markings, not for the accuracy on notes (pitches), how they get this kind of different notes. Are there any explanations on this that we can read about? I wish I can learn more about it.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,195
    Here's a copy of the Per ipsum, transcribed from the Solesmes book Ordo missae in cantu (except that I added dots at the ends of phrases.)
    per_ipsum.pdf
    120K
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