Why do we call it "Ordinary Time" ?
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    You Liturgical musicians out there may find this short article interesting ... or thought-provoking ...

    Why do we call it "Ordinary Time" ?
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,577
    Ordinary Time — derived from
    Ordinal meaning Ordering (1st-2nd-3rd)
    as opposed to
    Cardinal meaning Counting (1-2-3).
  • DougS
    Posts: 793
    From the Oxford English Dictionary (July 2010, note italics):

    Ordinary -
    2.a. Belonging to the regular or usual order or course of things; having a place in a fixed or regulated sequence; occurring in the course of regular custom or practice; normal; customary; usual.

    The phrase "Ordinary Time" is a description of what the thing is, not an attempt at a literal translation of the phrase "Tempus per annum."
  • I've variously made some effort in my own parish to re-label the day in English as 5th Sunday of the Year etc. But I keep going back and forth on this because I wonder if this only introduces more confusion.
  • So what's wrong with Ordinal Time? Doesn't anyone use the term "ordinal numbers" anymore?
    The problem with "Ordinary time" is that the "ordinary" meaning of the word "ordinary" is "usual, common, expected". And how can any of God's time be "ordinary" in that sense?
  • Oh, here's a simple solution. Restore the old calendar!
  • tdunbar
    Posts: 120
    because our "ordinary" life is to be After Pentecost?
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    DougS,

    I agree with you...except that I've sat through entire sermons explaining the "deep meaning" of the term "Ordinary Time."
  • DougS
    Posts: 793
    Uh oh, Jeff O.!
  • tdunba, yesterday would have been Fifth Sunday after Epiphany. Two weeks from now would be Septuagesima Sunday instead of Seventh Sunday in Ordinary Time.

    The only real improvement in the new, to my mind, is the moving of Christ the King.
  • marajoymarajoy
    Posts: 781
    restoring the old calendar would simplify things?
    Oh, like how yesterday was the "5th Sunday after Epiphany," which actually takes most of the propers from the *3rd* Sunday after Epiphany, (as does the 4th Sunday after Epiphany!)... but don't accidentally get the propers from the *Resumed* 5th Sunday after Epiphany, cuz then you'll really be in trouble!
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    Friends,

    I really didn't really want to get into the whole "Old Calendar vs. New Calendar."

    I know that some Liturgists are critical of the new calendar because it did away with Sundays "of a marked character" (i.e. "after Epiphany" or "after Pentecost") in favor of "Ordinary Time."

    The reason I brought up the subject is that "Ordinary" can, perhaps, have a bad connotation.

    Imagine referring to your friend: "Oh, he's ordinary." That doesn't sound so good ...
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,577
    "Oh, he's ordinary." That doesn't sound so good ...

    (shouting at the world)

    Okay, I apologise, I am sorry.
    You are not ordinary.
    You are special.
    You are standing *there*.
    I am standing *here*.
    Nobody else can stand where you are standing, while you are there.
    That makes you special ... *all* the time.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    I don't think the word "ordinary" needs to be derisive. I've often referred to friends as "ordinary", to mean "not possessing any outstanding vices or eccentricities." But, in the realm of liturgy, I too find it unsatisfying.

    However, I'm forced to agree with Jeff Tucker - if we go around changing how we refer to it, we risk alienating and confusing normal Catholics, who will see it as "change for the sake of change." I suspect the majority will see the new translations the same way, as many (otherwise moderately faithful Catholic) immediate relatives have referred to it as "change for the sake of change." And I think most of our musical reforms instituted on a parish level are objected to less out of a fear of Latin or chant or quality, but because it's seen as "change for the sake of change." "Ordinary time" is an unsatisfying descriptor... but it isn't a serious threat to the faith, so we may as well stick to it. Although, for my own use, I usually just type "Ordinary 5" or something. Seems... churchier.

    I have a much bigger beef than the name, and that's the continuous nature of the Tempus per Annum. I don't care what the Church calls it, the time after Epiphany IS different in character than the time after Pentecost! Even if they named it "super extra-special definitely not ordinary time", the fact that it lasts 33 weeks still sets it up as a relief from the other seasons. This cheats the nature of the lessons in the time after Epiphany and the time after Pentecost.
  • I have heard complaints along these lines before, and I have never really figured out whether the underlying motive is (1) that, at least for English, the word "ordinary" confuses people into thinking these weeks are unimportant, (2) that "Tempus per annum" or "Time through the year," which strikes my ears as a meaningless label, is qualitatively good in some way that I'm apparently missing, or (3) that vernacular newchurch suckz, LATIN TRUECHURCH ROOLZ!!1

    It's one of those three, I think, but I'm not entirely sure which. And I suspect that the dewy-eyed blog posts I've read about the now-forever-lost "deep meaning" of "Sundays after Pentecost" amounts to as much baloney about the "deep meaning" of Ordinary Time that JMO mentions, and is basically reason (3) masquerading as reason (2), but who can say for sure. Does anyone know what they call "Tempus per annum" in other vernaculars? That might help us at least deal with reason (1) above.
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    Mark,

    I don't disagree with anything you say.

    However, I assure you that reason for my "musing" was based on a sermon I recently heard: the entire sermon was about the "deep meaning" of Ordinary Time.

    It got me thinking: "who was the first one to call it ordinary time?"

    I assure you, this is the only reason I brought up the issue.
  • JMO: I certainly wasn't faulting you in any way; sorry if it seemed that I was. On the contrary, your story is a good illustration of the very natural human tendency to create and defend backstories and invented "deep meanings" for things that never had much meaning in the first place. I suspect that if the situation were reversed we'd be hearing from some about the glorious orderliness of traditional "Ordered Time" that invoked the saints and seasons marching like armies and how much we had lost in the change to the bland "Time through the year," and from others, like your homilist, about the deep meaning of "through the year."
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    Personally, I am against calling it "ordinary time" because of MT's #1 reason, which certainly IS how people view it (at least at face value) in all the places I have been.

    The best definition I can give is that they are not "unimportant" Sundays/season/whatever, but rather that they celebrate the "ordinary miracles" (if one dare call them that) of Christ's life, rather than a specific liturgical season such as Easter or Christmas.

    Nonetheless, who here volunteers to go tell his wife tonight that she is "ordinary and that's great!"

    ...

    *crickets*
  • Maureen
    Posts: 678
    Why don't we just eliminate every possible synonym and variant meaning in the English language, and communicate solely in grunts? O the clarity!

    At minimum, we need to change the names of the "organ", "score", "note", "chord" (brings corduroys to mind), "clef" (brings cliffs to mind), "pedal" (brings bikes to mind), and so on. All much too easy to misunderstand, or even make innuendos about. Golly, that will never do. :)
  • Jeff:
    I thought of Ordinary as Ordinal- the numbered Sundays with continued (ordered) readings as opposed to feasts. The word does not concern me but that sermon you "sat through" does.

    What was the content of the sermon?
    Was the "deep meaning" of the word "ordinary" the authentic Good News?
    Was it more like the road to Emmaus or more like "the Emperor's New Clothes"?
    What was he talking about?

    When the GIRM was introduced the local experts overshadowed the actual content with
    red herring headlines that Rome was changing the way we Catholics receive communion
    and the way we are to raise our hands during the Lord's Prayer. There was an elaborate process set up so we all understood the "deep meaning" of these two local changes that were not really contained (though implied) in the GIRM. Through all of this, the real content of the GIRM was ignored!

    There currently seems to be an undue urgency introduce the new missal through an elaborate process: meetings, forums, workshops. Many of our facilitators are the very ones who oppose it- so I am expecting and excess of "deep meanings" for a while.
    But what will remain for years this better translation that will have more resistance to weak theology.
    A better translation of TEMPUS PER ANNUM (“time during the year”) would have spared you that sermon on the "deep meaning "
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,017
    Gavin,

    Apropos your comment about the time after Epiphany being different from the time after Pentecost: there's another way it's different, and that's in the way the ordinals are counted. They are counted forward from Baptism of the Lord, but backward from Advent. And the counting is not of the Sundays, but of weeks (whole or partial), hence each OT Sunday is really the Sunday of the Nth Week of [the Year/OT], which would have been the better usage had it started out that way.

    I would be happy to have the taxonomy changed. But I much prefer the postconciliar calendar without Pre-Lent.
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    Mark Thompson and friends,

    Thanks for these thoughts. I am hoping the little blog doesn't come off a "grumpy nit-picking," but, rather, a simple musing. God bless!
  • I used to refer, in print and welcome announcements at Mass, to the day as "the ____ Sunday in ordered time." Seemed basic and intuitive. I was asked to revert to the assigned term. Not difficult. Alignment, I believe, was the perceived disconnect that needed remedy.