Why is singing polyphony enjoyable?
  • gregpgregp
    Posts: 632
    I would be interested in getting viewpoints from some of you as to the unique nature of singing polyphony.

    Chant is one thing: all of us who have sung at the Colloquium can attest to the thrill of a 40-voice group all singing one of the Propers. The unison sound is powerful and, in declaiming the text, moving in a different way than, say, a congregational hymn can be.

    But what is it about polyphony - not listening to it, but singing it? I get a visceral pleasure from the counterpoint and the feeling of harmonic movement.

    How does one analyze this?
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    There is a visceral reaction to harmony and dissonance.
  • Charles in CenCA
    Posts: 2,416
    Great topic, Greg!
    *Nothing like a perfectly tuned cadential triad or even perfect fifth.
    *Nothing like swimming in different currents that eventually lead to the ultimate placid pond.
    *Nothing like the subtlety of well prepared suspensions, or the sweet tension of purposed cross relations passing (in the night?), or the miraculous, exotic flying carpet ride from one tonal center to another in a heartbeat.
    *Nothing like the human orchestra orbiting amidst the music of the spheres....
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    As a tenor who grew up always singing "Lead" (the melody) as a Cantor, I find polyphony to be intensely easier and more fun to sing than typical SATB choral literature because.... I have an independent melody, not a "part."
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,092
    I enjoy shaping a line against other lines that have different shapes. So for me, singing polyphony one-on-a-part is best. But I can do that; not everyone reads well enough to make that work. And I just find polyphony more insteresting than chant; sorry for the heresy.
  • IanWIanW
    Posts: 763
    @Jeffrey Quick: yes, singing polyphony one-on-a-part can be very satisfying indeed. The satisfaction feels like that described by string quartet players.
  • Jeffrey TuckerJeffrey Tucker
    Posts: 3,624
    Adam is right. It is the perfection of the democratic ideal, no masters and no slaves. Every part is independent but no part has meaning without the whole. So polyphonic music is the perfect society, a foreshadowing of eternity.
    Thanked by 1bonniebede
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,577
    In Discussion 4627 there is talk about emancipation of the note.

    In this Discussion there is talk about the emancipation of the part.
    Each part is equal, each part is an independent melody.
  • Michael O'Connor
    Posts: 1,637
    The melodicity of the parts as opposed to functionality (even for altos and basses)
    The cool musical imagery
    All those THIRDS!
    The sheer joy of realizing your part is in duet with another
    The rare moments of homorhythmic power
    The genius of the composers
    Thanked by 1eft94530
  • DougS
    Posts: 793
    Adam is right. It is the perfection of the democratic ideal, no masters and no slaves. Every part is independent but no part has meaning without the whole. So polyphonic music is the perfect society, a foreshadowing of eternity.


    This is also what 19th-century Germans said about the genre of the symphony! Of course that's polyphony to the extreme.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    The 19th Century Germans said I was right?! Awesome.
  • Charles in CenCA
    Posts: 2,416
    Adam, I'm sure that the Prussians said you were right.
    The Bavarians, not so much! ;-)
  • Jeffrey TuckerJeffrey Tucker
    Posts: 3,624
    Every German who believed that "Adam is right" was a fan of Brahms and not Wagner.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    I prefer English choral to German symphonic music at any rate, so I doubt many 19th Century Germans would agree with me on musical matters.

    Back to polyphony....
    To expand on my own and JT's line of thinking- I've always thought the perfect interdependence of polyphonic lines was a reflection of the Trinity. Particularly in pieces with fugal writing wherein the entirety of the melodic material is completely contained within each part.
  • DougS
    Posts: 793
    Haha, Jeffrey! Indeed!
  • Blaise
    Posts: 439
    By polyphony, we mean that every part has a melodic or quasi-melodic function, right, and not just generic choral repertoire?

    Why it is enjoyable---well, I like the richness which each part contributes to the whole piece, such as Palestrina "Sicut Cervus". But as for choral repertoire in general, I delight in hearing the different parts blending in harmony. Indeed, it is a musical feast, a foretaste of the beatific vision.

    Some day I hope to write my own polyphonic Mass, or even if not polyphonic, a choral Mass. The composers I wish most to imitate include Palestrina (Missa Aeterna Christi Munera), Robert Crone (Mass in Honor of Our Lady of Fatima), and Harold Darke (Communion Service in F---not sure this counts as polyphony).

    Something I can attempt to add to the musical banquet to help the people keep their eyes on the goal----to be with our great God, Lord and Master, and enjoy the beatific vision which He has reserved for those who love Him unreservedly until the end.
  • David Sullivan
    Posts: 355
    Something I love about polyphony is contributing part of something beautiful that is greater than I can do on my own. With unison chant, if I could learn and sing the piece well and beautifully, it would be complete, even though it might well be preferable to have other singers.
    With polyphony, if I learn and sing my part well, it needst to be put with the other parts to be complete, and it becomes part of something greater when it is put with the others. The singers of other parts rely on me and I on them for the piece to work.
    The image I have is that of the church as a body, where the different members fulfill their functions in order for the whole to be what it should be.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    I always get a good line, as opposed to fa-sol-do!
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,577
    But fa-sol-do is a good line,
    and I did like it, or should I say I do like it?

    The choir lost a tenor to the Cathedral and I started
    learning to sing tenor lines with the remaining tenor.
    During this Thu eve rehearsal the tenor line had a fa-sol-do measure
    written an octave higher than predictable, and I enjoyed its rare appearance.

    Some minutes later in another piece, the director, singing bass,
    went falsetto to help the altos for a few measures,
    I dropped to sing the bass line and shortly had a chance to sing fa-sol-do predictably.

    Which brings me to another reason singing polyphony is enjoyable:
    there are baton handoffs everywhere.
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,092
    I wish sopranos got to sing fa-sol-do more often. They seem sometimes to know 4 intervals: seconds, thirds, "big skips" and octaves.
  • Michael O'Connor
    Posts: 1,637
    Jeffery, I recommend you duck now...
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    I love that polyphony is starting to be trendy. All these hip-looking videos of attractive 20-somethings singing Renaissance music. Awesome!
  • MaryAnn Carr WilsonMaryAnn Carr Wilson
    Posts: 1,738
    I'd have to echo Mike O'Connor's list as to why I enjoy singing polyphony.

    Also, polyphony gives an outlet to good musicians who aren't necessarily 'solo material'. You don't have to have fabulous colorful tone that will sail over an 80 piece orchestra to make a beautiful contribution to polyphonic rep.
    As far as the soprano quip, it's largely true about choral sops, in my experience. Polyphony is a good stretch for sopranos- it gives us a challenge beyond a predictable melody.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,848
    Polyphony... mixing with angels.
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    You become more powerful than you can possibly imagine. Even the lowliest becomes exalted in his or her contribution to the overall product.

    As a bass (baritone really, but who's counting?), I enjoy being the foundation for everything else soaring above me. I also love those exposed bass entrances, especially if they're marked mf or louder :)
    Thanked by 2francis David Deavy
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    Singing polyphony reminds me of jumping on a moving playground carousel as a little kid. Timing is everything.

    What is very cool is learning as a group to survive little glitches and bumps and avoiding train wrecks.
    Thanked by 1David Deavy
  • francis
    Posts: 10,848
    http://www.myopus.com/kyrieIn5.mp3
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    mathematics and beauty. What's not to like?

    Thanked by 2CHGiffen francis
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,424
    It is the perfect union of mind and heart in ecstatic equilibrium.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen francis
  • francis
    Posts: 10,848
    Chris and MJO

    great analogies. a blend of both:

    Math and Art ascend into an ethereal realm stealing every beholding mind and heart as they pass by on the perfect journey to heaven and God himself.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • bonniebede
    Posts: 756
    I don't know. Why is singing polyphony enjoyable?
    Thanked by 1eft94530
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,199
    Is it NOT enjoyable?
  • bonniebede
    Posts: 756
    Oh, no. I just thought it was a formula, you know... why did the nun walk into the bar? I don't know. why did the nun walk into the bar? etc etc...
    Thanked by 3CHGiffen eft94530 ZacchaeusLock
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    Singing polyphony also reminds me of "double dutch" jump roping on the school playground and those all-important seamless entrances and exits. Now, of course, it has become an Olympic sport, but it might be the musical equivalent of this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ji2UxqmZ6U
    Thanked by 1eft94530
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    The ballet of spheres and orbits....spectral strands of DNA.....everyone coalescing into a grand waltz in Grand Central Station....a fast break with all five sharing the ball on the dash to the hoop.....A Triple Crown win....A Vermeer, Renoir, Monet's Rouen series, Rembrandt self-portraits....soldiers going back under fire to carry their wounded buddies to safety....children, completely prepared, receiving First Holy Communion....mother whales guiding their calves in deep water...savoring poems by e.e.cummings....Miserere
    Thanked by 1JulieColl
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    So apt and so beautiful, melofluent. Polyphony is a metaphor for human endeavor and existence. I see the symbolism when I sing with our family choir: sometimes I sing in perfect tandem with my husband, sometimes my son and I go in lockstep, sometimes my daughters and I are in perfect thirds, and sometimes we pass each other in flight, and sometimes in counterpoint . . . and sometimes, but not often, I'm alone.

    Sometimes we have to wait a millisecond for someone to catch up or sometimes we have to go on without a vital member who's fallen off the track, and sometimes we all crash and burn, but always, always, there is the impetus to jump back in and not miss a second of the interaction and dialogue and be there when our voices and hearts are needed.

    All I hope is that at the end of my days I'll be ready and waiting metaphorically speaking at the second beat of measure 55 in Palestrina's Sicut Cervus to deliver that quintessential alto line: "ad te, Deus" as my own little contribution to the symphony of life.
    Thanked by 3melofluent CHGiffen nun_34
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    I love Palestrina's Sicut Cervus!
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,199
    Poetry is the artful crafting of the mind's thoughts, while Music is the deep outpouring of the heart's feelings. Conjoined in Song, they are the evocation of the spirit's essence. But, even more so, when interwoven in Polyphony, they ascend to become the profound transcendent utterances of the soul.
    Thanked by 3melofluent JulieColl francis
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