Question on choice of music for Mass
  • Hello, I'm a non-musician and new here, so forgive my naivety and ignorance.

    Would it be fair to say that most of the liturgical music that church choirs choose and sing (and aside from chant) is biased to what they personally like singing i.e. a reflection of their own tastes in music? If so, where does this priority sit in most people's minds in relation to more objective liturgical priorities such as providing music that will enrich the prayers of the congregation? There may be overlap between the two priorities of course, but
    not necessarily, esp if the congregation are not enthused (or even distracted) by what is being sung.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,157
    Welcome to the forum, darrharis!

    One weakness in most parishes' music can be summed up in the phrase: "Don't sing at the Mass, sing the Mass." In a lot of parishes, people sing four hymns (entrance, offertory, communion, recessional), but don't sing the ordinary parts of the Mass.

    The Church actually sets objective priorities for us in her teaching about sacred music. The priest and the congregation should be singing their dialogues ("The Lord be with you"/"And also with you") and the major parts of the Mass ordinary (Kyrie, Gloria, Credo, Sanctus, Agnus Dei). The Mass is sort of designed to work well that way, and the Church's teaching about liturgical music urges us to sing those parts first of all. That's the kind of "active participation" Vatican II wanted, in which people are directly involved in their role as the congregation at the Mass.

    Instead, many parish musicians have their choirs or congregations sing hymns, anthems, or songs. They may be good music or even great music (or maybe not-so-great music) perhaps, but they're not an official part of the Mass text, so they really are just being tacked onto the Mass at the parish. They're incidental to the Mass, and they're not really the prayer of the Church. It's lawful to use them (generally), but it's a poor second or third-choice, considering how wonderful it is for a congregation to sing the Mass itself.

    When a congregation and priest do sing their respective parts of the Mass, the role of the choir makes sense: it's to sing the variable elements in the Mass -- the entrance antiphon, the psalm between the readings, the offertory antiphon, and the communion antiphon -- which require practice because the texts and melodies change from week to week.

    I hope this is sort of along the lines you're thinking about.

    Anyway, welcome: to find out more about what the CMAA is and does, watch the great video about our annual summer colloquium, produced by artist collaborative Corpus Christi Watershed.
  • Very well said! I would only add that the choices of music reflect what a pastor likes or will tolerate for the sake of peace in the parish. A big part of it is based on what "everyone else is doing." Few music ministries dare take their congregation to places that a visitor wouldn't recognize. Hence the homogenization of Catholic music.
  • Many thanks Chonak for your comments which I agree with. I guess my question (which I didn't frame very well) was more concerned with the optional music in the Mass, and what is presented to congregations. If the Church allows options X, Y, W, Z, and assuming are all possible in a parish, but a choir only "likes" or prefers option X, then the congregation miss out on Y, W, Z, simply because it is not the personal preference of the choir. So my question relates to the competing priorities of personal preference, over what is allowed by the Church - should the musicians be doing all they can to explore all options and present the diversity of legitimate musical possibilities the Church provides, or should they be content to just gravitate to what they personally like. For example, some people have expressed recently various views on organ accompaniment of chant - it is allowed by the Church and has a long tradition in some parts - some members of any congregation may like it, and some may obviously not - but will they ever be offered both alternatives if the choir has his own personal preference on the matter and places that on a higher level to what the Church allows? In the Pope's letter to the Bishops re Summorum Pontificum, he asked the Bishops to "Let us generously open our hearts and make room for everything that the faith itself allows." Do people also see this as an obligation of church choirs?
  • DougS
    Posts: 793
    The answer to your final question is simple: some do, some don't.
  • I think the answer is that a choir that gets to dictate the style and choice of music at Mass is not led by a director but by...would the word be facilitator?
  • A choir or group of musicians has to make decisions (I wish it weren't so, the EF provides everything you need) based on its abilities and what the group or director feels the congregation and pastor will countenance. Most groups of volunteers simply cannot offer the "diversity of legitimate musical possibilities" because they are not able. As much as I love I Renaissance polyphony, I was once at a Mass where I wished with all my heart that the choir would cease its torture of Victoria. This is frankly the pit we end up in when given "choices" and diversity.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,157
    Musicians have obligations: to present music that conforms to the liturgical norms, to develop their own skills, to foster choirs, to develop the congregation's abilities, to present music of the highest artistic quality possible.

    There isn't any real duty to use all the various permitted options, or to adopt music in an extensive variety of styles. As one observer put it, variety is not a liturgical value.

    On the other hand, monotony in style may be a lost opportunity to make the Mass more beautiful and to expand the choir's abilities.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    There isn't any real duty to use all the various permitted options, or to adopt music in an extensive variety of styles. As one observer put it, variety is not a liturgical value.

    But it might be a mandate (spoken or otherwise) from your employers.
  • David AndrewDavid Andrew
    Posts: 1,204
    At my previous position, I inherited a choir of mixed ability that had been led by a director that played guitar primarily, could fake the piano, and had absolutely no training, skills or background in training and conducting a choir. The majority of the choir library was made up of generic anthems by Craig Courtney and others of his ilk, with maybe one or two anthems that I would consider appropriate for use at Mass, and much of what they did was driven by his tastes and abilities, and the tastes of some in the choir.

    When I got there, I worked with what I had, but introduced some more sophisticated music that challenged their abilities, worked on various aspects of choral/vocal technique and slowly raised the bar over the 2 1/2 years I was there. Some didn't care for what I was doing, but most did and the choir gained a few new members.

    By the time I left, the choir was singing vastly better music and was more musical than when I arrived. I would say that we were one of the best all-volunteer choirs in the Archdiocese. The associate music director told my parents when meeting them that she had learned a great deal about sacred music, choir technique and about what the Church asks us to do with respect to music at Mass under my leadership.

    I'm happy to say that while the circumstances surrounding my abrupt departure from that job were painful, I have found out that the bar I set remains pretty much in place. However, I also found out via email that one gentleman who sang in both the parish choir and the "contemporary" ensemble has since left the parish and moved to a much more serious "reform of the reform" parish and sings in the choir there, due entirely to what he learned about chant and polyphony and what the Church teaches in these matters while singing in the choir under my direction.

    The circumstances behind my departure (which was essentially a forced resignation) had nothing to do with the quality of my work. It was brought on by a select number of "sheep" (including the school music teacher) who felt threatened by my growing desire to bring orthodoxy to the music of the parish. The majority of the choir and congregation were shocked and disappointed that I resigned and left so quickly.

    Sometimes we can't tell what influence we may have on people or what direction things will take, so my advice is to follow your instincts, but work as best as you can to move toward musical orthopraxis.
  • The circumstances behind my departure (which was essentially a forced resignation) had nothing to do with the quality of my work.


    It usually never is ... It's ironic that ones who are incompetent keep their job.

    It was brought on by a select number of "sheep" (including the school music teacher) who felt threatened by my growing desire to bring orthodoxy to the music of the parish. The majority of the choir and congregation were shocked and disappointed that I resigned and left so quickly.


    This act is unquestionably selfish and sinful by those who "brought this on". These people simply don't respect and care about you and the good work you do. I wish priests prevented such demonic acts from ever happening. It's also interesting to note that the ones who have this "problem" with such orthodox music directors are sometimes not the ones actually singing in the choir.
  • @JC-
    Does your "irony" necessarily mean that DMz who've remained at one parish for two decades (me) or four decades (Salamunovich/Mahrt) are incompetent?
  • Funny! I think that he is saying that it is rare for competency to be recognized and preserved as a valued thing especially when just a few evil and possibly sinful people can work their way on a pastor.
  • @Charles in CenCA
    Of course not. Read what Noel said.

    You and Dr. Mahrt are examples of the fortunate ones.
  • Jeffrey, I know. Just twisting your mustasche, figuratively.
    I'm a "one note Johnny" on the subject of DMz making every effort to stay IN ONE PLACE as long as possible so as to set a standard, and protocols by which future transfers of authority, whether clerical or in musical leadership, that informs all interested parties' responsibilities. I wouldn't want to "follow" Dr. Mahrt, but would be honored and humbled to be offered such an office, knowing of its firm foundations. Relax Palo Alto, never gonna happen.