Providing for a Successor
  • daniel
    Posts: 75
    For several years we have been raising money to repair the parish pipe organ, and thank God we're almost done. It occurs to me that there's a good chance I will no longer be the organist in this parish for very much longer (for very many reasons). I'm thinking maybe another year or two. My concern is guaranteeing that there will be an organist to succeed me who will value the pipe organ and provide for it's continued care. I was in a parish for 10 years that had a pipe organ. When I left, the organ was in good condition, we had a decent sized choir and library. My successor there is not a trained musician. He doesn't like pipe organs, only electronics, so he only plays the piano. The organ sits neglected in bad condition, and the choir has dwindled. I guess it's a lack of humility, but after all my work I would have liked to see things continued there. Now I'm afraid the same might happen here. How does one "look" for a successor while still employed and at the same time not relinquish one's job to the successor until he (the incumbent) is ready to leave?
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    1. Start a children's choir.
    2. Wait 20 years.


    Since it's too late for that, I would talk to whoever holds the purse strings about hiring an apprentice. Do you have a school of music nearby?
  • don roy
    Posts: 306
    daniel
    im afraid to say your experience is very very common. i have worked in 5 parishes during my 17 years. I left all of them healthy vibrant and groiwing. none of them survived my replacement for the very reason you describe above.
  • Carl DCarl D
    Posts: 992
    I would start bring in people to your groups who might have an interest in taking over. Give them increasing responsibility over key responsibilities - to build their skills, and to help them get comfortable with the idea that they might move into your position at some point in the future.

    At an appropriate time, have private conversations to let them know that you might be thinking of them as a future leader, you support their growth, and you need and value their contribution.

    I talk as if you're doing this with several people at once, but you certainly could do this with just a single person. I prefer to do this with several people, though, because:
    * It feels less to the group that you're grooming your successor and therefore locking others out from growth.
    * When you start out, you might be quite surprised where the next leader comes from. Give several the chance to grow and learn.
    * We need more passionate and engaged people in our music programs.
    * Many times, multiple people might split up the tasks that you have now in a different way. Let it grow organically.

    Carl
  • DougS
    Posts: 793
    Is your position as organist part-time?
  • Great topic. I've been contemplating this for quite a few years as I've been at my gig nineteen. I've actually had conversations with my pastor about the subject, which indicates, at least between us, a mandate for consistent and progressive (in the non political sense) transfer of responsibility.
    This should make for an interesting, point by point Cafe post. Stay tuned.
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,694
    If you're in the sort of position where you'll have no say in your successor and the pastor is a minimalist, the best thing to do is to encourage your choir to demand your successor be a qualified individual who's idea of liturgy is on the right track.

    A large group of volunteers threatening to leave over a poor replacement is a good way to get a pastor to look towards quality.
  • DougS
    Posts: 793
    I agree with Matthew, if that is your situation.

    Without any more details, I feel like we are taking shots in the dark.
  • marajoymarajoy
    Posts: 781
    An excellent question!
    Having never had to do this before, and likely encountering this situation soon myself, is it really that difficult to send out the job description far and wide, and then pick the best person? At least a person who understands the *importance* of sacred liturgy/music. If people have a strong desire to really improve the music program, and their principals line up with the teachings of the Church, can't they themselves work at becoming more adequate as the director of this music progam?
    Not sure if I'm making much sense...
    When I was hired almost 5 years ago, I could barely read chant notation, had never directed a choir, and didn't even have a degree in music. Now, I can sightread graduals and have gotten a master's degree in music! Is that so rare? Would it really be hard to find a similar successor for myself?
    I'm wondering b/c I really have no idea of the "job applicant market."
    Are there so few people who would take a part-time job, even at a decent salary, and work to make beautiful music? And if they didn't know how---then LEARN how?!
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    I think it's really a lost cause. I know a few cathedral musicians, both of whom built up great, nationally recognized programs and watched them get torn down by successors. I worked very hard to build up my last program, and, given that the very supportive pastor left, I don't have high hopes for what it's like now.

    I think it would be good to be in touch with a successor, and explain to them what you did, why you did it, any tips they may need. Build up camaraderie and such. But you really aren't in a position to boss them around and say "do it MY way!"

    Honestly, my best advice, counsel I've given to myself as well as to my much more experienced colleagues, is to be glad of the work that you DID do, and the opportunities you had to make music. There's no sense in making an emotional investment in something over which you no longer have control.
  • daniel
    Posts: 75
    Thank you everyone for your comments. To try to address some of them, yes I've had a Children's Choir here for 17 years. Teaching piano to one child and he's doing well. I try to tell my choirs why I choose certain music in the hopes of educating them to do the same in the future. If possible, I think I will try to do some "head hunting" myself when I know my time is near to see if I can interest them in succeeding me (without telling them "do it my way".) Finally, as Gavin said, I guess we should be glad and grateful for the work God is allowing us to do at present and leave the future to Him.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    We should be networking as much as possible as is, but one thing to add is that if you have a colleague who you know is doing good work, perhaps you can contact him/her and see if he/she is interested in the position. Also, making sure it's advertised on here is a good idea.
  • Carl DCarl D
    Posts: 992
    Marajoy, it's entirely reasonable to post a job opening (even unpaid) for an internship/apprentice position. People do it in business all the time. There's some tradeoffs, though, compared to the relatively underground approach that I described above.

    * This changes the relationship of that person to the rest of the volunteers in your music program. Others may feel locked out of a key position, or distanced from your current role as leader.

    * This creates a much more formal relationship with the pastor, so it's critical to have him onboard sponsoring the whole thing. That sponsorship may wane over time, especially of you change priests.

    * Someone who makes a commitment like this will have greater expectations of eventual reward. Despite your disclaimers, they may get itchy after 6 months or a year to actually move into your role or maybe a paid assistant position. So you have to be able to show them some kind of progress to keep their enthusiasm up.

    But it's not a bad model, I've seen it used in business more and more these days.

    Carl
  • It is becoming, sadly, more and more apparent that music programs in the Catholic Church are, with very few exceptions, defined utterly at the whims of whoever the incumbent cleric (of whatever rank, parochial or diocesan) happens to be. Of course, fine music programs are not at all universal in the Anglican/Episcopal church; however, neither are they a rarity: it is not at all unusual that a cathedral or parish church has a history of choral and liturgical excellence which is beyond the potentially destructive hands of a new rector or dean. It is not unheard of that such choral establishments are endowed. That a trendy or artless new clerical appointee can without reference to previous tradition or the accomplishments and heritage of highly gifted scholar-musicians willfully and shamelessly erase or neglect such a benefaction is a calumny of astonishing proportions. The Church has not at all progressed beyond the patronage system of times past in which music, indeed all the arts, flowered or wilted according to the merest wish of this or that prince or bishop. The Church deserves more, as does her people, and as does God. Everyone, even the irreligious, knows church music and not-church-music when he or she hears it, and only the insincerely facetious would argue about it. Everyone in holy orders or not has an obligation to the Church, to Vatican II, and to every holy father since and before, to cultivate the Church's musical heritage.

    So, how to ensure a worthy successor? Pray!
    And, talk to your pastor about the expectations of VII and what you have accomplished. Try to enlist his sympathy for these things.
    Try to convince him to undertake a search and discernment process which will garner a musician of genuine talent and scholarship equal to pastoral abilities.
    Sow seeds of appreciation (and expectation) amongst your choristers and the congregation for the work you have accomplished, inherited, or continued.

    The Lutherans have a very effective system of ensuring appropriate church music talent in their parishes. Their teachers' colleges also train organists and choirmasters who can then be 'called' by any church in need. This guarantees not only a talent for what is new, but an equal talent and preparation for continuing their musical and liturgical heritage. This is something that might bear study for adoption in the Catholic Church.
  • Form a music committee of people who are very, very strong supporters. Have a meeting at least every 6 weeks with this group and your pastor. If the pastor is transferred, your committee makes an immediate appointment to meet with you and the new pastor to establish with him what the music program is, how it functions and how it serves the parish. All these meetings are best if held over a meal.

    Keep your pastor informed of every development in the music program and have a pact with him that anyone that wants to or tries to talk about music in any way is immediately put on hold, over the phone or in person, until you can be there with him.

    Identify a possible successor, pave the way for this person to get to know the choir, playing for you and you playing and letting him or her conduct. Make them the IDEAL EASY choice.
  • Very Sane advice for a very mature procedure from FNJ.
    Just one consideration -
    Choosing a specific person to groom for the succession and keeping the matter entirely 'in house', is rather unfair to numbers of qualified persons who have a right to expect participating in the process. Too many positions are swallowed up when favoriti were hastened into a never vacant position and no one had a chance. This is grossly unfair and does not guarantee that a parish will in fact obtain the best talent. This is incestuous. It is a form of nepotism. It is certainly 'cronyism'.
    Specific choral and organ qualifications together with liturgical knowledge should be requisites, for which qualified persons my compete and unqualified persons will know better than to compete.
  • MJO is correct. It is unfair, but no one has a right to expect to participate in the process.
  • Not every DM has to be an organist. In the best of situations, you have a good choral person with a staff of good organists. I've never been personally satisfied as a choral singer with being led by someone who also has to focus on accompanying the group he/she is conducting.
  • MO'C - Not wishing to be mean, but I've noticed that when a parish has 'a staff of good organists', none of them are, in fact, 'good'. Actually, they usually are not really organists at all. Though I (with my Anglican background) see nothing wrong, no handicap, with having a Choirmaster-Organist, I should expect that if the Choirmaster or DM were not the organist, then the organist should be a person of equal talent and accomplishment to the DM. As musicians, they would differ only in the superior authority entrusted to the Choirmaster or DM. This ensures excellent directing and excellent playing - and it ensures that the choirmaster can take his or her choir (not to mention the congregation) as far into the literature as they are capable of going.
  • Agreed. As a practical matter, this is true, but In the jobs I have had, I never played the organ. I've never been trained on the instrument. I've always had at least one good organist along with a few converted pianists. I'll turn this around and put on my flame retardant suit and say, that if a church has a good choral director, it only needs a competent organist, not a superb one. It's nice to have the latter, and in a perfect situation, you would have both, but as a chorister, I much prefer to have a conductor directing the choir during the performance. Volunteer choirs especially feel more secure with someone leading them with "both hands", so to speak.
  • marajoymarajoy
    Posts: 781
    yeah, I'm pretty skeptical about the phrase "a staff of good organists..." A truly good, or even decent, organist almost ALWAYS has his own job! (That's why it's so stinkin hard to find a sub that my pastor will allow back!) I do believe that there is a dearth of even decent organists... Likely, that is another reason contributing to why it is so hard to find a replacement.
    But, why would anyone *want* to set out to become an organist these days? As has been lamented many times before...when the Catholic Church decide that they will PAY for good music...THEN they will have it!
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    When it comes to writing letters of recommendation for the "outgoing" organist, here is a story from autobiography of one of the greatest of pianists—Anton Rubinstein:

    I made several other calls, having brought with me some ten or fifteen letters of introduction from ... the Russian Ambassador and his wife in Berlin. I made the calls and left the letters.... Silence was the sole response.... I was utterly at a loss. 'Let me look,' I thought, 'and see what is said about me in these letters of introduction', quite a pile of which still remained undelivered. I opened one of them, and what did I read! ... 'My dear Countess So and So, To the position which we, the Ambassador and his wife, occupy, is attached the tedious duty of patronizing and recommending our various compatriots in order to satisfy their oftentimes clamorous requests. Therefore we recommend to you the bearer of this letter, one Rubinstein.' The riddle was solved.
  • I'm pretty skeptical about the phrase "a staff of good organists..." A truly good, or even decent, organist almost ALWAYS has his own job!

    This undoubtedly is true in the typical parish setting, but not for the flagship churches. A Westminster Cathedral has and needs a crew of excellent organists to fulfill the demands of their liturgies. At St. Paul's in Cambridge, MA, for example, we have three wonderful organists and all are over-worked. Our music changes weekly and often there are selections with major organ accompaniments (e.g., Langlais' "Sanctus" from his Messe Solennelle ). This Sunday at one Mass we happen to be singing the Kryie, Gloria, and Agnus dei from Howells Collegium Regale , a work requiring precision and subtlety of the organist. Unlike most Catholic parishes, our congregation is also accustomed to hearing preludes and postludes by major composers. That alone is a chore.

    Marajoy rightly mentions the decline in competent organists. In the Northeast, with parish attendance declining, salaries will continue to be prohibitive of finding good organists. But there is another important factor. The better cantors working in the area often have an outlet for their talents through participation in one of the major choral groups that flourish in the region (Handel & Haydn Society, Boston Baroque, Cantata Singers, Tanglewood Festival Chorus - the list is long). Organists on the other hand have no such outlet. They either find satisfaction in their church work or they don't.
  • Thanks for the tip.
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,577
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