László Dobszay • Sung Propers vs. Spoken Propers • Ordo Cantus Missae
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    Friends,

    UPDATED LINK (2012)

    For the ORDINARY FORM (OF), the Introits and Communions were assigned in light of the Second Vatican Council's Liturgy Reform:

    19. A great variety of readings has been introduced into the Roman Missal, but the chants for Mass received from tradition cannot be changed. Accordingly, the same chant formulary is used with the different readings in the Lectionary for the three-year cycle (A, B, C) established for Sundays.


    Somehow or other (I'm not exactly how) I had been led to believe that László Dobszay claimed in his article in Sacred Music that the SPOKEN Propers were often different than the SUNG Propers in the Ordinary Form.

    However, I have not been able to find any differences between the SUNG Propers (as found in the Gregorian Missal) and the SPOKEN Propers (©1973 by ICEL) which can be found at this website.

    Am I missing something?

    Here, I am speaking of the INTROITS and COMMUNIONS for Sundays and Feasts. I don't think ICEL ever translated the Graduals, Offertories, or Alleluia Verses.

    Oh, and here's translation by Richard Chonak of the Ordo Cantus Missae and also a PDF translation created by someone (but I'm not sure who).
  • Jeffrey TuckerJeffrey Tucker
    Posts: 3,624
    What an interesting website! Never seen that.

    On the Missale and Graduale propers differences, see Tietze
    http://musicasacra.com/publications/sacredmusic/pdf/sm133-4.pdf
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    Thanks for the link!

    http://musicasacra.com/publications/sacredmusic/pdf/sm133-4.pdf
  • smvanroodesmvanroode
    Posts: 966
    Right now, I don't have time to go through the entire Missal, but one thing is immediately clear to me: the Missal only gives a single antiphon text, regardless of the year (A, B or C), whereas the Graduale Romanum sometimes gives different antiphons according to the year. See, for example, the 26th Sunday of Ordinary Time, where the Missal only gives the Introit Omnia quae fecisti, and the Graduale Romanum also gives In nomine Domini for year A, as indicated in the Ordo cantus missae (no. 136, p. 62).

    So, for sure the Missal doesn't list the changes to be made according to no. 20 of the Introduction to the Ordo cantus missae.

    I would have to look more closely at the propers to see if there are cases where the antiphon given by the Missal is totally different from the one given by the Graduale Romanum.

    EDIT: Ah! They are all listed by Christoph Tietze on pp. 9-12 of his article in Saced Music. Bold face indicates differences between Missale and Graduale.
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    the Missal only gives a single antiphon text, regardless of the year (A, B or C)


    Hmmm...I'm finding options for each year (cf. 4th Sunday of Lent, Communion) delineated by A, B, & C. I find these things curious...
  • smvanroodesmvanroode
    Posts: 966
    Okay, looking at the Latin Missale Romanum for the Fourth Sunday of Lent, I can see the three options for the Communion too (p. 150 of the pdf document). But these are not the changes no. 20 of the Introduction to the Ordo cantus missae is speaking of; for these Communion options are also listed at the Fourth Sunday of Lent in the Ordo cantus missae (no. 55, p. 39), and are not mentioned in the section giving the changes to be made (no. 136, p. 62). (Are you still with me...?)

    The Third, Fourth and Fifth Sunday of Lent are special, because one can always choose to use the readings of year A, even if the actual year is B or C.

    So, still, for 'ordinary' Sundays, the Missal only gives a single antiphon text, regardless of the year (A, B or C).
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