A politically correct Salve
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,368
    Adam and I have had (I think) good times sharing our hymn texts on this forum.

    A famous and well-published Catholic composer has just offered this text to replace (!) the prayer Salve Regina.
    http://www.praytellblog.com/index.php/2010/12/21/a-new-marian-text-for-a-beloved-marian-tune/

    Its rhymes are strong--and this is not easy, particularly as a triple rhyme occurs in each stanza. Yet the text on the whole seems remarkably unpolished. Apart from its obviously limited ecclesial-political standpoint, this text suffers in concrete aspects of hymn text fluency, including extra syllables, unintelligible syntax, and multiple awkward inversions of the "God's reign you personify" type.

    A text must be worked and reworked to find a way to include omitted direct objects ("you," in line 1.5), to agree with standard usage of articles ("the"... "the," in line 2.3) and to put important, stressed words on metrical stresses ("reign," in line 2.5).

    In an era (and on a blog) in which clarity and syntax are constantly being held up as the paramount judgments of liturgical texts, I'm afraid this one needs quite a bit more work.
  • incantuincantu
    Posts: 989
    This is yet another example of someone writing new lyrics to an old tune, rather than writing a discrete text in the form of a metrical hymn. Some great hymn writers might have a specific tune in mind, but always the text can stand on its own.
    It reminds me of this old limerick:

    There once was a man from Japan
    Who wrote verse that never would scan.
    When they said "but the thing doesn't go with the swing,"
    He said, "I know, but I always try to fit as many words in the last line as I possibly can."
  • Mary, the first Tabernacle, has now been suddenly demoted to being the first Disciple by Haas.
  • Mark P.
    Posts: 248
    "Pregnant bearer of God’s dream"

    Please! And a studied avoidance of masculine pronouns to refer to God Almighty.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,368
    I think the ideological/ spiritual/ theological issues are important, but I'd prefer to focus on the technical aspects, if that's ok.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,611
    Kathy:

    The key word is 'replace'. Just take it all the way and replace the Virgin Mary. (HINT: you can replace the words 'Virgin Mary' in any hymn, bible text, writing by the saints, etc., by substituting the words 'Roman Catholic Church' and it means almost exactly the same thing.)

    Hail the Theotokos!!!!

    I think it would be more appropriate to 'replace' the the lack of a Roman Catholic theological underpinning of the publishers.
  • Sure. You may wish to change the topic heading to reflect that....
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,412
    Technical issues...

    awkward turns of phrase:
    "holy birthing place"
    "mercy will intensify" (what?!)
    "peace and justice is your theme"


    Most of you know that I'm a fan of much of David's work.
    But I've noticed over the last couple years that his ratio of quality and originality to goofy liberal cliche has been tipping further and further.
    Like William Shatner, he's becoming more of a parody of himself rather than the talented and inspired writer he really should be.

    Additionally, I feel increasingly like any song or new composition should pass a "so-what?" test before inflicting it on the world. Several of my own hymns and songs have been banished because I realized that, while yes- I did enjoy sitting at my piano in my own home stringing together those 4-chords over and over while singing a bad paraphrase of Psalm X, no one in the world needs it. I can't imagine why anyone would willingly replace Salve Regina (one of the best, most well-loved, and well-sung) Catholic hymns with a groovy new text.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,412
    intensify rhyming with personify is just so...
    um...
    goofy is the only word I can come up with.
  • Adam, I Love the idea of a 'so what' test. It's the main reason I'm not composing much for the next few years. I want to soak up the sounds of chant and other great contributions to sacred and religious music before I try to join the dance.
    Ok, and raising four boys 7 and under, working, and homeschooling is the practical reason, too. :)

    But I totally agree that less (published) is more for the vast majority of composers. Most of the new in any generation is cliche within a very short period of time.
    If it's quality, just avoid burning it and someday it will get to the world.
  • Holy birthing place? Where to begin on that one.
    Perhaps some people have been banned because their texts are so far superior?
    It's irksome that this is praised, and some of the faithful will be browbeaten into giving it voice. I'm sorry, but the text is really awkward, and the political manipulation is insulting.
    What would Newman say?!?
  • mjballoumjballou
    Posts: 989
    I don't understand why people want to tinker with well-known hymns. Actually, I do - they believe that people will sing them with the new words because they already know the tune. I think the text is clotted and dated. We've got Hail, Holy Queen already. And we've got the text for the Magnificat. Putting them together in a blender doesn't work.

    There are a few of David Haas' pieces that I dearly love, particularly when they're sung by a good, clean-voiced soloist with a simple accompaniment. Not this one.
  • Most of you know that I'm a fan of much of David's work.


    There are a few of David Haas' pieces that I dearly love, particularly when they're sung by a good, clean-voiced soloist with a simple accompaniment.


    What pieces of David Haas do you like?
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 8,733
    Indeed, MA, where to begin?

    The text addresses the Holy Theotokos as "womb of Christ". The phrase seems to objectify Our Lady, as if it were reducing Her to being a womb; this, in a song that otherwise conforms thoroughly to conventional modern attitudes -- and "holy birthing place" reinforces the objectification. It's good that Haas didn't think of "delivery room of divinity".

    Instead of reducing our Lady, we can think of calling the Holy Theotokos a "tabernacle": not a common word, but a word of praise that connects history with theology and liturgy.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,611
    The day will come when all creation stands before "The Almighty God and Father" and HE will say something akin to "I do not know you because you never addressed me as one of my children... Abba, Father!"
  • Maureen
    Posts: 670
    Argh. I went over there and gave my honest critique, on practically every line of the song. I hope he'll pay attention. I'm not sure if he was joking when he replied to Todd Flowerday's comments on scansion that he didn't know how to scan things on computers... though if he's being honest, it would explain a lot....

    Frankly, I don't care so much about the political leaning of the song as that it's just not very competently done. I know, I'm not the greatest songwriter in the world myself and I pull some crazy stuff. But... it's so not ready for prime time. It doesn't even make sense. It displays several of the least useful idiosyncrasies of the OCP songwriting stable. It makes me feel really sad.

    Well, every song's one draft away from being a masterpiece. A nice thorough rewrite could do wonders.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,368
    Wesley:

    My prayer hath power with God; the grace
    Unspeakable I now receive;
    Through faith I see Thee face to face,
    I see Thee face to face, and live!
    In vain I have not wept and strove;
    Thy nature and Thy Name is Love.

    Cowper:

    When, like a tent to dwell in,
    He spread the skies abroad,
    And swathed about the swelling
    Of Ocean’s mighty flood;
    He wrought by weight and measure,
    And I was with Him then:
    Myself the Father’s pleasure,
    And mine, the sons of men.

    Wood:

    The axe, as yet, awaits the tree,
    The threshing floor awaits the fan.
    Before His justice, none can flee;
    Beneath His judgement, none can stand.

    Pluth:

    The city streets are paved with gold.
    The final scroll shall be unrolled,
    And no one shall grow faint or old,
    For God shall be their glory.

    Haas:

    Hail, Holy Mary, hope for all, O Maria!
    Your song of justice is our call, O Maria!
    Poor and broken are held high,
    Mercy will intensify,
    God’s reign you personify:
    Salve, Salve, Salve Regina!
  • It would be of great interest to post the last three someplace without attribution and let people have a say.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 8,733
    Great interest? I don't think this little ditty can create much interest.

    Maureen, if you still have the text of your comments, you may as well post them here, since I doubt they'll see the light of day over at the PT blog.
  • Argh. I went over there and gave my honest critique, on practically every line of the song.

    Did your comment get sent down the memory hole over there, Maureen? I'm not seeing it.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,368
    Transparency--isn't that the watchword? Transparency--and clarity, and syntax.
  • mjballoumjballou
    Posts: 989
    At the risk of having my CMAA membership revoked, I confess to finding "Deep Within" a charming piece. HOWEVER, I don't care for it at Mass. I think it's iPod music.

    Contrast this new text to anything from the Byzantine repertoire for the Theotokos, whether it's the Akathist, virtually any 9th Ode, or the hymn from the Liturgy of St. Basil, if you want to consider the Virgin's womb:

    All Creation rejoices in thee, O full of grace:
    the angels in heaven and the race of men,
    O sanctified temple and spiritual paradise,
    the glory of virgins, of whom God was incarnate
    and became a child, our God before the ages.
    He made thy body into a throne,
    and thy womb more spacious than the heavens.
    All of creation rejoices in thee, O full of grace:
    Glory be to thee.
  • IanWIanW
    Posts: 749
    It's there now. Delay and subsequent publication may have been down to the editorial process (the editor assures us he agonises over such things), or it might reflect a decision reversed in the light of comments made here. Either way, its publication is a good thing, both for its substance and the breadth of views represented there.
  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,131
    Excellent critique Maureen. Thank you for the thorough analysis of his text. Would that we should all be so lucky to have that written about our work.
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,393
    This is why God invented editors. David should ask Maureen to be his editor. Editors exist to challenge the blindspots of authors, not merely to find typos.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,412
    I find it terribly humbling and complimentary that a stanza of mine compared favorably with Wesley...
    Thanks.


    To answer Jeffrey C's question:
    I really like his CD "Where the River Flows," (although not the title track).
    I like his Who Calls You by Name collection a great deal, particularly "Christ is Risen, Shout Hosanna"
    I like most of the songs from "As Water to the Thirsty" album.

    He is at his best, I think, when doing one of the following:
    -adapting Psalm texts to ethnic folk tunes
    -contemporary styled settings of existing liturgical texts

    Fitness for liturgy is a subject I won't broach here, because that has to do with the style, not his execution of it, and I think everybody knows where everybody stands.
    I will say, though, David Haas albums are a standard part of the cross-country driving sing-along collection whenever my family takes a trip. Along with Donna Pena, Bob Hurd, the Iona Community, Bob Denver, Elton John, Five for Fighting, the Newsboys, James Blunt, and various showtunes.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,368
    I like his Vespers. I like that at a time when practically no one in the RC world outside of monasteries sang the hours, or the O antiphons, he came out with an album of Morning Prayer and Vespers.
  • awruff
    Posts: 94
    Dear sacred music friends,

    The comments by Maureen O'Brien were submitted after 8 pm last night and I approved them this morning. I'm not at the computer 24/7! And I'm rather frantically busy rehearsing Gregorian Chant, organ music, cantors, etc.for all the coming Masses and Offices.

    Pax,

    Fr. Anthony Ruff, OSB
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,368
    Haas mentions that this unfinished, problematic, politically-driven text has already been accepted for publication. Would it have been challenged, or edited, by the publishing company? Haas has openly welcomed critique, but what if all critique had been of the "sounds good to me" variety? GIA sells it, music directors buy it--and the People of God accept it. No one hums an encyclical, hardly anyone remembers a homily, but people would actually sing this weak text. In the Liturgy.

    We have got to do better.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,412
    My comments to Mr. Haas over at PT:
    ---
    David-
    You're probably aware by now that there is a conversation going on about this text over at the (generally conservative) CMAA Forum.
    In case you aren't:
    http://musicasacra.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4448

    I hate the idea that a bunch of anti-Haas commenters are carrying on about a text I assume is somewhat dear to you behind your back.

    David, I'm a big fan of your body of work. The eternal debate about appropriateness of certain musical styles at Catholic Mass is currently turning against you- especially in the highly-polarized blagosphere, but I hope that doesn't discourage your ongoing service to Christian music.

    One of the things I have always liked about your music and lyric writing is the way you are able to blend/infuse contemporary (liberal) images of social justice and peace with the Biblical source material. Indeed, it isn't a stretch to do so, as the Psalm and Canticles are full of the poor being lifted up, while the rich are sent away empty-handed.

    I fear, though, that this hymn-text doesn't live up to your abilities. The "peace and justice" theme doesn't seem particularly inspired, but rather feels like a cliche of how liberals talk. I feel Maureen is dead-on with her assessment, and I especially want to echo that it feels like thoughts and ideas in the text are inserted simply for the rhyme. "Increase," is a particularly egregious example, as it is the only word of plea in a verse that is otherwise a litany of praise. Perhaps worse than that is the clumsy and cold word "personify." Some words just shouldn't be used is sacred lyrics.

    I like "Song of Justice," that's pretty classic Haas writing. I like "God's dream," (but not "pregnant").

    Two inherent problems, apart from the technical nitty-grtty:
    1. The hymn seems to reduce Our Lady to a vague idea, rather than a living breathing woman.
    2. I can't see the point of trying to replace one of the best-loved and most well-sung Catholic hymns. It doesn't pass the "so what" test.
    ---
  • Adam, I'd reserve judgment on whether people are talking behind Hass' back.
    For one thing, PT readers, especially those involved in music, can and do visit this forum. Fr. Ruff is a clear example on this thread.
    Another reason some comment here but don't waste time at PT trying to comment- the editorial process there is significantly more restrictive.
    But we've already gone through that bit- I'm just pointing out why people prefer to comment on this forum.
    Other than that, I totally agree with your critique.


    The most practical reason to question Hass' text is one we know well- don't mess with beloved hymns of the faithful without a really good reason. I would further add that his very wordy text does not lend itself to a common purpose for this hymn- processions.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,412
    I should clarify-
    I didn't mean "behind his back" as a matter of intention on the part of the commenters, but rather knowledge on the part of Mr. Haas. Since this is a public forum, I assume he is welcome here and that no one would mind him reading their comments about him or his work. I assume the reason the conversation was brought here was the original poster wanted this social circle's opinion, not because she wanted to hide the conversation from David or PT.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 8,733
    As far as I can tell, "God's dream" is really problematic.

    At the literal level, a dream implies sleeping -- but of course God does not sleep. Beyond that, a dream is a vision that may or may not come true. Yet God's thoughts are fully in accord with reality: they _make_ reality. It's contradictory for God to have a thought that potentially doesn't come true. To speak of "God's dream" calls into question His limitless power, so it is a troubling theological expression.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,412
    In response to my comment at PT:
    Jeffrey Pinyan: When did David say he intended to replace “Hail, Holy Queen” with his new composition?


    My response:

    Not replace in the larger sense, as if this text would appear in hymnals instead of the original.
    But I think it’s safe to assume that at a celebration which calls for a Marian hymn, this text and the original are unlikely to be found together. A music director choosing to do this piece would likely be displacing the original. Any liturgical programming necessarily leaves things out, and adding to the repertoire forces that issue, which means that new music should (at least in someone’s opinion) be good enough to replace the thing that has to be left out to make room for it.
    For example: my wife has several settings of the Magnificat text which she really likes (more than one by our Mr. Haas). She was more than a little upset when I started working on a Tallis setting with our choir, because she knows that when the day calls for a Magnificat, I’m unlikely to program both the Tallis and one of her favorites. In my opinion, the Tallis piece is of a high-enough quality to be worth that sacrifice.
    On the other hand, I myself have written a setting of the Magnificat. It’s a relaxed pop-devotional style, scored for a solo singer accompanied by an acoustic and an electric piano. I like it. But I’m not likely to program it at my parish because it simply is not as good as any of the settings it would displace.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,412
    Chonak-
    That assumes that when speaking of God's dream, the writer believes that God's dreams are equivalent to human dreams.
    It is potentially problematic for the reason you suggest, but that interpretation is not required.
    On the other hand, even with the best, most correct intention, language that can so easily be misunderstood might at the very least be inadvisable.

    For my part, I like it because it is evocative and interesting, unlike much of the rest of the text. Also, being fairly familiar with David's music, I feel like I understand what he means by it, and I don't think what he believes he is communicating is heretical or unorthodox.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,368
    Just btw, someone should tell Todd Flowerday that he's ill-informed about the openness of the Pray Tell forum to receive comments, and I don't appreciate the libel. Very, very poor form indeed.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,611
    et al

    Here is my very strong opinion which pushes toward probable fact.

    The comments on this forum, I would wager money, are probably viewed by members of PT and other blogs and sites. This forum garnishes more 'legitimate' weight in the liturgical music sphere for the Roman Rite, because it's members seek to know and understand what the Church desires of her liturgy, uphold it and put it forward. I am not too familiar with other sites that aim to do just that, except for the Cafe, TNLM and Fr. Z.

    Are there others?

    As for speaking behind anyone's back, I wholly reject that idea. Because this is a significant public forum on sacred music, anything that anyone hangs here, or on a blog or in the webosphere, is open and fair game. If you speak here, you might as well be putting it in the NYT or the USA Today. It's no different.
  • incantuincantu
    Posts: 989
    I had no idea who had penned this hymn until I read the more recent comments. Now it makes sense. Hass is a songwriter, and not a bad one. But a hymn is a different art form than song, and at least in this particular case Haas does not demonstrate the kind of mastery of the form necessary to render the poetic idea (and there is one in there) in a way that is artfully effortless. Irving Berlin was a songwriter. Gershwin was a composer who also wrote popular songs. Bernstein was a conductor who also composed. This new text is a wolf in sheep's clothing, or at least a song dressed up as a hymn.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,412
    Once again- my "behind [his] back" statement was only referring to Mr. Haas's knowledge of the conversation, not to Kathy's intention.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,368
    "But a hymn is a different art form than song, and at least in this particular case Haas does not demonstrate the kind of mastery of the form necessary to render the poetic idea (and there is one in there) in a way that is artfully effortless. "

    This is an extremely helpful comment, I think. But again, careful editing and rewriting could make a big difference--and Haas has asked for feedback.

    (Not sure how one would get past the limitations of the point of view, the professional-liturgist-in-speak language that runs through the text, nor the so-what question.)

    These issues are not academic. The hymnals that coincide with the new translations are hitting the presses as we speak, and if this is an up-to-the-minute example of the quality control of one of the Big Three, well...
  • Kathy, it's marketing: "Look, Mary! Hass has written better words for Hail, Holy Queen and they include more contemporary images, and others that reflect Catholic social teaching and the spirit of the Magnificat in Luke."

    Are the Hail Mary and the Our Father next in line? "Hail, Mary, who's up there above, Her name's shouted out..."
  • We are no longer in the "high cotton". We, gasp, have been exposed by what we are at Pray Tell:

    "I think any of us with more than three days’ experience on Catholic liturgy blogs know well what the CMAA regulars were going to do with this one, if they got wind of it."

    "Adam, I think you nailed the gist of it with your “behind the back” comment. I stand by my comments. Members of a self-professed Christian organization should hold themselves to a higher standard. David’s sense of self-worth is immaterial. The CMAA thread is unprofessional and should give any potential member a moment to pause and consider."
  • Mark P.
    Posts: 248
    Professionalism is a two-way street. One man's candor is another man's lack of professionalism.
  • "catty behavior is not is not beneath us."

    http://catholicsensibility.wordpress.com/2010/12/22/the-icy-streets-of-catholic-commentary/#comments

    Take a moment to read the comments, too....educational to see why people post here.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,611
    hmm....

    OK... I put my (first) post on PT... I will put it here too so those who don't visit PT will be able to read it.

    ______________

    Adam!

    CMAA… a generally ‘conservative’ forum?? How do you defne conservative?

    DH:

    A good and blessed day to you. The CMAA’ers are certainly similar threads of a Christianity that is steeped in historical premises, I will grant you that. Don’t get us wrong. Your EFFORTS are well appreciated. However, it is sometimes the impetus underneath of many ‘contemporary’ efforts that sometimes befuddle us. For instance:
    make attempts to explore different approaches to composing and pushing the envelope either musically, ritually or textually.


    Why is THAT so important to you?

    The question quickly arises in my mind: when does “pushing the textual limit of the envelope” border or wander off into the rewriting and reformation of sound theological content? You aren’t just writing poetry in your creative journal… you are composing music for the RC Holy Sacrifice of the Mass that is to be published for thousands if not millions to sing regularly.

    New imagery or exploring different ideas is great, but it has to find roots in the essence of the faith. Text should be crafted just as carefully as the notes that sing them.

    Ding-Dong Merrily on High!

    (NOTE: DH ended his post with "God bless you – keep it coming! Jingle Bells!")
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,412
    Adam!

    CMAA… a generally ‘conservative’ forum?? How do you defne conservative?

    Oh, c'mon.
  • I hate the idea that a bunch of anti-Haas commenters are carrying on about a text I assume is somewhat dear to you behind your back.


    There is absolutely no sense in attempting to comment in the com boxes at PT. One of the editors is on record as saying that the reason he deletes comments by conservatives is "they are not smart enough" to make their case in the same way liberals are...
  • It's pretty bad. But objectively, is this so good?
    Adam, if it was my call (which it wasn't) I wouldn't have gone over there and dragged us into it. They know we have a different aesthetic posture here, and that there's little love lost. They do their thing, we do ours, we spy on each other but pretty much leave each other alone, and it's all good. There was a call to workshop the poem, and Maureen did that. It seems a bit like scrupulosity to be over apologetic about what we do here. But it's done, and objectively it's not a big thing. We just play the ball where it lies.

    My biggest issue with the Haas is the the assumption that we need to enroll Our Lady as a spokeswoman for Catholic social teaching. That strikes me as much more limiting and objectifying than the womb business. I will freely admit that this reaction has a lot to do with my own issues with CST, which has been so often abused as a weapon by gutter Marxists hiding in the church that it's difficult to follow the Gospel threads in the Church's argument. I'm reminded of the Latino couple in the video version of John Adams' El Nino, supposedly parallel to Mary and Joseph (he this young guy instead of a widower with a trade). Yeah, "Mary is just like all the oppressed..." Except she ISN'T; she was immaculately conceived. Equating Mary with any social stereotype can only diminish her.

    Rant done; I now resume my regularly-scheduled MusicaSacra reading.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,368
    Just to touch again on the technical aspects...

    I began this thread using the word "fluency," and although I believe it is exactly the right word, it is hard to describe.

    Charles Rosen said that any work of art would be judged on 3 things:

    "A style may be described figuratively as a way of exploiting and focusing a language, which then becomes a dialect or language in its own right, and it is this focus which makes possible what might be called the personal style or manner of the artist, as Mozart worked against the background of the general style of his age, yet with a more specific relation to Haydn and to Johann Christian Bach. But analogies with language break down because a style is finally itself treated as a work of art, and judged as an individual work is judged and by much the same standards: coherence, power, and richness of allusion."

    Just focusing on that aspect of "richness of allusion," it seems to me that hymns are strongest when they are thoroughly soaked in Scripture. This is one of the great things I see in Adam's stanza quoted above. Every image is a biblical image. Every biblical image in his hymn is true to its meaning in the Bible.

    Regarding "power," that really is more of a question of liberal arts. Does it scan? How dense is the poetry? How well done is the alliteration? Are the conventions of rhyme, meter, and word order observed?

    John Wesley put it this way:

    "In these hymns there is no doggerel; no botches; nothing put in to patch up the rhyme; no feeble expletives. Here is nothing turgid or bombast, on the one hand, or low and creeping, on the other. Here are no cant expressions; no words without meaning. Those who impute this to us know not what they say. We talk common sense, both in prose and verse, and use no word but in a fixed and determinate sense. Here are, allow me to say, both the purity, the strength, and the elegance of the English language; and, at the same time, the utmost simplicity and plainness, suited to every capacity. "

    Put those two together--Scripture plus poetic power--and you've got a hymn worth singing. I certainly hope the new hymnals are full of such hymns.
  • " They do their thing, we do ours, we spy on each other but pretty much leave each other alone, and it's all good"

    No, it's not all good. That's the point of Musica Sacra. Other blogs have little or no interest in change that returns the church to its historical standards, standards that are based upon the possible fact that people "back then" not only were our equals, but may have well been superior. Based upon that there is no reason to "improve" a text that seems to have originated in 1080, according to Hymnary. Nor the Gregorian Chant of the ages.

    There is this Catholic element that has no ability to pursue the creation of music that runs in parallel with contemporary classical music of the time, instead it has become mired in the reworking of music, most recently broadway show tune styles. Protestants will not put up with this less than stellar music and instead create rock and pop music that sounds like the secular music on the radio today. Spin the dial, you have to listen awhile to see if the music is Christian or not. But the pop music Catholics have dropped the ball there, and remain in some sort of behind the time popular music warp.

    If the music you are singing at Mass does not pass the "VATICAN GUEST CHOIR" test, you need to keep chipping away at it to get to the point where it is.

    Other blogs would disagree, saying that what the Vatican requires is not music that is "pastor-ally correct" for US English-speaking congregations. And this is the crux of the issue. US Catholics on both sides of the altar, have no respect for Rome and the Pope.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,368
    Noel,

    I think the CMAA is mostly about promoting something good.