Plainchant melody/chorale tune/hymn tune cross-reference
  • David AndrewDavid Andrew
    Posts: 1,191
    DISCLAIMER: This thread seeks information regarding reference resources. Those who wish to once again enter into the all too tiresome argument of whether or not the organ works of J.S. Bach and other non-Catholic composers are appropriate in a Catholic liturgy are asked to refrain from comment. You know who you are. Thank you.

    There are parallels between plainchant melodies (primarily, but not limited to liturgical hymns), chorale tunes and hymn tunes. For example, there are Lutheran chorales that are based on plainchant melodies (i.e., Komm, Gott, Schoepfer, heiliger Geist is the chorale tune based on Veni creator), or there are hymn tunes that have different names from their chorale ancestor (another Bach example: Valet will ich der geben is the chorale tune version of ST. THEODULPH, with the common title "All Glory, Laud and Honor").

    For those of us (here's the part where the disclaimer comes into play) who play organ for an OF parish and wish to use the full treasury of organ literature, is there anywhere online or in print a cross-reference or cross-index of these various tune names?
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    Many hymnals will list either title in the index. There's a compendium to Worship III which has a listing of organ works based on each and every hymn tune, so you may look there if you have that resource.

    This may seem callous, but I'd think this is just something you SHOULD know - Valet is St. Theodulph, O Welt is Innsbruck, etc. And the shame is only increased by you being a former Episcopalian! :P
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    Also, as you know, hymn tunes aren't exactly written in stone. Many tunes have 3 or more titles: Passion Chorale/O Sacred Head/O Haup voll blut/Herzlich.... Not to mention the variation in so many editions of them - does Adeste Fideles have a dotted quarter in the penultimate syllable of the verses or is it just half note - quarter? Tunes influencing other tunes or variations thereupon is rather hard to track. I'd say stick with what you know or otherwise don't bother with the depths of research of finding out how many versions of "Veni Creator" exist.

    It's a bit of a pet hobby of mine, however, so I'd say just post individual cases where you're wondering about something.
  • Steve CollinsSteve Collins
    Posts: 1,003
    The only resource I can think of is having a large hymnal collection! The Hymnal 1940 has some Office hymns, with the alternate tune the modern version thereof. The English Hymnal has a few of these also, and even English Catholic hymnals (pre Vat. II). There are many hymns from the German/Lutheran tradition based on chants, especially Sequences. If anyone does find some sort of on-line cross reference, I'd like to see it also.
  • David AndrewDavid Andrew
    Posts: 1,191
    Thank you, Steve.

    To clarify, it's not the sources of the tunes themselves that I'm looking for, it's the cross-related titles.

    (I've already got shelves simply groaning under the weight of collected hymnals.)
  • rich_enough
    Posts: 753
    These may help:

    Edward Schaeffer: Bach for Catholics: Using Chrorales in the Liturgy (Pastoral Press, 1987; in print at Amazon) - briefly discusses 25 chorale melodies used by in his organ works J. S. Bach which appear in Catholic hymnals or are derived from chant.

    D. DeWitt Wasson, ed. Hymntune Index (Scarecrow Press, 1998) - keyed to dozens of modern hymnals.

    Jean Edson: Organ-preludes: An Index to Compositions on Hymn Tunes, Chorales, Plainsong Melodies, Gregorian Tunes and Carols (Scarecrow Press, 1970).

    The last two should be available at any good music library or large public library.

    I don't know of any adequate online resource for cross-references of hymn tunes.

    This is probably overkill, since there are really only a limited number of tunes used in chorale preludes included in modern hymnals, even fewer if you limit that to the most commonly-used Catholic hymnals. The "Bach for Catholics" book covers most of them. I could give you a list of the ones I have come across of you think it would help you.

    Sam Schmitt