• So there are too many Graduals, and this is getting tiresome!
    -Is there a current Vatican Edition of the Gradual for the Novus Ordo?( and I assume this would not have rhythmic marks)?
    and Is there a complete online Gradual with rhythmic markings?
    Is the Triplex on-line?
    It seems right now that the Gregorian Missal English / Latin is the most helpful.
    I just need the most useful scores for today. nothing else - don't even need one with Hammond registration.
  • SkirpRSkirpR
    Posts: 854
    I may be wrong, but I believe the Vatican gave over to Solesmes the task of producing all official chant books in the early 20th century. So the official Graduale Romanum for the Ordinary Form is that by Solesmes which is only available in book form. The Graduale Triplex is the exact same book, with the neumes of the St. Gall and Laon manuscripts added. The Gregorian Missal (which is online) contains only the chants for Sundays and major feasts, but has English translations, and is drawn from the Graduale Romanum.

    Of course, in all of these, the chants have been redistributed for the Ordinary Form, but the music itself has not been edited since the early 20th century - which is why Vatican II called for a new "more critical edition" of the Graduale, still unfulfilled.

    The soon-to-be released Graduale from the German scholars that people have been mentioning will be published in Rome, but does not seem like it will be an official chant book for the Church - just used for study purposes - at this point. But it might hopefully advance the cause of the new "more critical edition" from the Church, i.e. Solesmes....?

    Do I have that right?
  • I would love to see the Triplex online. Maybe we can do this.
  • dvalerio
    Posts: 341
    To the best of my knowledge (and if I am wrong I will gladly stand corrected), the official book with the chants for the Mass in the OF is the Ordo Cantus Missae, which only includes a few chants themselves (those that were not to be found in previous official publications), but, whenever possible, simply makes reference to the 1908 Editio Vaticana and its supplements published later. None of these official books includes rhythmic marks.

    The 1974 Graduale is a private edition of Solesmes, based upon the 1908 Editio Vaticana with superimposed rhythmic signs, and does not even include all chants mentioned in the Ordo Cantus Missae, since it ommits neo-gregorian melodies whenever possible.

    The Graduale Triplex is (as already said above) the 1974 Graduale to which the neums of St. Gall and Laon were added, and is not available online.

    The most recent complete Gradual available online is the 1961 edition for the EF, available in this very site, and with rhythmic signs.

    The Graduale de Dominicis et Festis about to be published is, as far as I know, another private edition for the OF, not based upon the 1908 Editio Vaticana but rather upon the work of Rupert Fischer et alii. Actually at Gregor und Taube (a German site) you can find most of the chants for the OF, according to the said publications of Fischer et alii, with St. Gall neums above the scores (and a German translation of the Latin, perhaps not very useful for most English speakers). So in a way you can find there online much of what you may want from the Triplex or from the said new Graduale de Dominicis et Festis.
  • awruff
    Posts: 90
    What dvalerio wrote all sounds right to me.
    Except, I'm not sure whether the GR74 fails to include everything in OCM - I honestly don't know, does anyone else? I ask because there are still plenty of neo-Gregorian pieces in 1974.
    Yes, the upcoming gradual is a private, unofficial edition.
    Note that the neumes at Gregor und Taube are neo-St. Gall. They've simplified them and made them a bit user friendly. This is why they didn't give a manuscript reference - it's a collation, modified. I know, scholars and purists will have issues with this. There is precedent in the book (I've forgotten the name now) issued by Munsterschwarzach intended for use by a monastic community which sings according to early neumes, believe it or not. It has the chants the whole community can do, eg no the offertoria.
    Fr. Anthony, OSB
  • There are proper chants indicated in the section of the Ordo Cantus Missae titled "Cantus Gradualis Romani (Edit 1908) Qui Ad Libitum Servari Possunt" which are omitted from the Solesmes books. E.g., the propers for St. John Cantius.
  • SkirpRSkirpR
    Posts: 854
    I was unaware of the differences in the Ordo Cantus Missae and the GR1974 until you mentioned it and I did some further reading. Thanks! So, if we're going to get all rubrically legalistic - when they differ, one is free to choose from either the OCM or the GR1974???
  • The OCM is an index that references the 1908 GR, but also includes a number of additional chants (~40). It indicates all of the chants of the OF Mass. The GR1974 is a compilation of the chants based on the OCM, but omitting certain ad libitum chants according to the antiquarian biases of Solesmes. Therefore, one would not err by following GR1974, but would simply miss out on certain options.
  • dvalerio
    Posts: 341
    > This is why they didn't give a manuscript reference - it's a collation, modified. I know, scholars and purists will have issues with this.

    However, even Dom Cardine himself did something similar in his Graduel Neumé. True, the preface of the Graduale Triplex says he later regretted not having followed just one manuscript at a time. And yet the same preface says that because of cross-references, etc., the Graduel Neumé remains a most useful book...
  • awruff
    Posts: 90
    Yes, it's similar. But GN is a collection of real neumes from several places, not a production of one set of neumes by averaging them all out and adding a few helpful things. Every neume in GN is authentic, but that's not necessarily the case in GuT.
    awr
  • Dan F.Dan F.
    Posts: 205
    And thus, we have proven Ralph's lament to be justified!
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 8,331
    I suppose there is a task to be done, of comparing the OCM and the GR74 to catalog the differences.

    We have at least one indication from the editors on page 8 of the GR74: they added a footnote to the Praenotanda, where the text mentions "neo-gregorian imitations" that one may still sing if one wishes: "Their melodies have been omitted in this private edition."