How to Have a Conversation at the Music Sacra Forum
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,477
    ChoirDirectorWithPracticalQuestion:
    Question have I! In situation X, what is the rule/tradition/current-practice/past-practice? Does anyone know how to answer this question I have?

    WantsToBeHelpfulButIsnt:
    I don't know the answer to your question, but in my (extremely limited) experience, let me tell you what I think the right answer is, or at least what it might be, or perhaps what I wish it was.
    Sorry I cannot be more helpful. Perhaps ExpertInTheseMatters could chime in here?

    ExpertInTheseMatters:
    Well, it really depends on the situation, although WantsToBe is at least partially correct. It depends on your reading of the following
    Hic nonnulla latine de longissima et insigni documento. Utinam Latin leguntur, esset valde benevolens. Sed re vera non expedit hoc in casu omnino, quia hic soli forte legentibus novi Latin resolutio principale quaesitum. Ergo causa longo sermone posuisse non patrio loquentes obscurus. Forte ille qui est respondere quaestioni in spissam ut re liturgica non intellegit plerique Videntes pauca Latin Si nulla est.

    When read through the lens of traditional practice, it's pretty clear that this means something specific. Although several French monks would claim that it means something entirely different.

    ChoirDirectorWithPracticalQuestion:
    Are you saying it's a specific thing, or some other specific thing that is good? I'm sorry, my Latin isn't what it used to be.

    PragmatistChantLover:
    I'm not sure I understand the big deal here, particularly considering all the other things we have to worry about, why this relatively minor point is even an issue.

    ManWithBowTie:
    I used to have strong feelings about this issue. You should see some of the conversations between me and UberCatholicMusicologist. But then I realized that if we all just stop using shaving cream and start singing more chant, no matter how we sing the chant, life will get better. I read an old magazine recently, and it's clear this argument has been going on for a long time.

    UberCatholicMusicologist:
    It's interesting that this was brought up. I just completed a 16-hour documentary exploring what some French monk that no one has ever heard of has to say about this very controversy. He died a long time ago.

    WantsToBeHelpfulButIsnt:
    It's good to know that what I've been doing is at least partially correct.

    AmphibiousChoirMan:
    I may or may not format the following series of non-specific responses in such way that makes sense to anyone reading this. This reminds me of somethng I read once. References to things you don't know about. The third line of the Latin reads, "this is a translation from LATIN." Ha Ha
    Thankfully we have experts who here who can prompt my self-deprecating on this point. I was under the impoession that it was a specific thing, but clearly it's a different specific thing.
    Haec verba Latina.

    YetAnotherPragmatist:
    In the reality of today's parish life, when is this even going to be an issue? I just wish I could stop singing the music of a composer I don't like.

    TraditionalistHeretic:
    I'm a progressive, liberal heretic who likes banjos and clown mass, and even I agree with something someone else said.
    Sheesh!

    WantsToBeHelpfulButIsnt:
    Of course in this case it all comes down to how supportive your pastor is.

    TraditionalistHeretic:
    My pastor is very supportive on these matters. Probably because he's Episcopalian and they pretty much go along with anything.

    AmphibiousChoirMan:
    Ha ha!

    ExpertInTheseMatters:
    Kudos to UberCatholicMusicologist. Excellent documentary. I just wanted to add that when I was working personally with that old dead French monk, he said some things that would really shed some light on this issue.
    Would you believe that instead of this specific thing, he did this other specific thing that was remarkably similar?

    UberCatholicMusicologist:
    I did hear that, but I didn't want to spend too much time on that controversy, as the video was only intended as an introduction to the topic.

    ChimerInner:
    Wait, is the original question about the EF or the OF?

    ChoirDirectorWithPracticalQuestion:
    OF

    WantsToBeHelpfulButIsnt:
    Well, in THAT case, you can probably just do anything you want.

    ExpertInTheseMatters:
    I believe the legislation on this point is either less clear or more clear regarding the OF as compared to the EF. Regardless, the practice has always been this specific thing.

    ChoirDirectorWithPracticalQuestion:
    Great. Thanks. I'll do the specific thing.

    :::Several Days Pass:::

    ChoirDirectorWithPracticalQuestion:
    Well it turns out that my pastor wanted to do it in some other specific way.
    But we did do some other thing which almost made it better.
    Brick by brick, I suppose.

    :::Several years pass:::

    NewbieEFlover:
    I know I'm a little late on this, but at the EF Mass I went to recently (at St. such-and-such, staffed by the monks of so-and-so) they did it the specific way.
    It was great!
  • David AndrewDavid Andrew
    Posts: 1,206
    Can I change my forum ID name to PragmatistChantLover? (Since what's quoted here is the gist of what I said on the thread about organ preludes in Advent).
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,477
    This is a work of fiction. Any resemblance to actual people or conversations is purely coincidental.
  • Bobby Bolin
    Posts: 419
    This is really good stuff!

    Signed,

    WantsToBeHelpfulButIsnt
    and
    ChimerInner
  • Carl DCarl D
    Posts: 992
    But, but, but, Adam! If you describe every conversation we've ever had here, that removes our pleasure of going through the pattern every time!

    Thanks for lightening my Tuesday, Adam. I needed that today.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,215
    Any resemblance between the preceding account and [a certain organization] is neither intentional nor fortuitous, but inevitable.
  • Jeffrey TuckerJeffrey Tucker
    Posts: 3,624
    Peace, love, chant, and down with copyright. Oh, and there's a hidden hand behind bad Catholic music.
  • ClemensRomanusClemensRomanus
    Posts: 1,023
    Nice.
  • IanWIanW
    Posts: 762
    Wick

    ed, Adam.
  • fp
    Posts: 63
    "Peace, love, chant" That would be a great Tshirt!

    (I had to add something...because most of the conversations end up on topics far related to their initial subject!)
    FP
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,508
    "Peace, love, chant"--copyright it now!
  • Paul F. Ford
    Posts: 864
    Brilliant!
  • BachLover2BachLover2
    Posts: 330
    adam, good, but it would be funnier if it reflected actual people that post here.... :)
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,508
    Sorry, Jeffrey, but this is my favorite bit: I read an old magazine recently, and it's clear this argument has been going on for a long time.

    lol
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    This cheered up my morning...chuckle chuckle!
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    The fact that every single one of us understands every word of this dialogue is probably sad . . . Great work, Adam !
  • David Pedersen
    Posts: 6
    This is a hilarious guide to blog "dialogue"! Very entertaining.
  • rogue63
    Posts: 410
    Absolutely rolling on the floor and laughing----what a great antidote to pre-Christmas stress! Thanks!
  • francis
    Posts: 10,816
    I think this is great material for a short skit at the next colloquium.

    ... And by the way, to which dead monk are you referring because if it is the dead monk I KNOW I think you may be mistaken because he got his method from a different dead monk... And HE was not in France. I believe he is a dead German monk, however the epithet has eroded over time and his last name is somewhat difficult to discern since it is weathered. There is a diary by a monk (he's dead too) that alludes to a monk by his last name, if it is the same dead monk, and THOSE live monks don't live in France but they DO follow an entirely different school of thought on the use of the ictus... However, the word ictus (which is discussed in the other dead monks journal) was a bit smeared and some think it says cactus because the reference was also discussing writing implements for chant. However, it doesnt seem plausible since cactus don't grow in the region of said dead monk. What do you think the word was? Ictus or cactus?
  • Dan F.Dan F.
    Posts: 205
    Great!
  • IanWIanW
    Posts: 762
    Was the other dead monk based in the Mojave, Francis?
  • francis
    Posts: 10,816
    hmmm... was that a German or French settlement there? I believe only the Germans used cactus quills if I am not mistaken. By the way, it was also common knowledge that when a monk accidently pricked his finger with a cactus quill, he would shout out loudly 'ICKTUS!' (short for icky cactus) and that could be why there is confusion over the matter. It was a common curse word in the desert there. And being that I live out west, I now understand why there is such dissent from such. I use a Mac so I don't run into that problem.

    They later discovered that some of the quills were poisonous, and that would alert the other monks to come running with the antidote and THAT is why we have so many dead monks. If they all hadn't died so soon, we would have a much clearer picture of what chant would truly sound like. Especially the Cactus Ictus School of Thought.

    ...and please don't quote me on this, but there is rumor that Steve Jobs was going to join one of those monasteries, but learned about the dangers of the cactus poison, and he dedicated his life to finding another way to create chant without the hazzard of premature dying. (he still left the reference to the poison that kills humanity in the corporate logo he decided to adopt [the bite out of the apple])
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