Mocquereau's Gregorian Musical Rhythm Vol 2
  • Chris Ruckdeschel
    Posts: 34
    Has anyone read this?

    As far as I can tell, it is only published in French. I haven't taken French since college. I've started to try to relearn enough so that I may be able to read this.

    This volume sounds very interesting. It is supposed to examine the textual relationship to rhythm. I'm curious to learn about Mocquereau's view about this.

    I'd appreciate any insights anyone could provide.

    In Christ...
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    Chris,

    I believe there's a chapter on this subject in Laura Heckenlively's book.

    Also, I'm planning on scanning in some old articles by Dom Gregory Murray on this subject that might interest you. God bless.
  • Chris Ruckdeschel
    Posts: 34
    Thank you, Jeff.

    I would appreciate it if you would scan them.

    Thank you also for the link to the Heckenlively book. I hadn't heard of it before. I'll try to take a look at it tonight.
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    By the way, Chris, I'm using a little bit of "graphical separation" in my most recent contribution to the St. Charles Garnier Gospel Acclamations.

    image

    image

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    See the space I left between "SON" and "LISTEN" ? It will (hopefully) remind the performer that there should probably be a small pause . . .

    In Le Nombre Musical Grégorien, Mocquereau called graphic separation the least reliable clue into the composer's intention . . . uh oh! (In another little pamphlet, he subtly criticizes for Pothier for relying too much on it.)
  • MarkThompson
    Posts: 768
    Historically, I think, a composer could not have such fine control over the engraving or printing of his music, so it stands to reason that drawing inferences from tiny visual cues of that sort would be a haphazard venture at best.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,606
    Tell that to the Vatican! (Jeff will explain)
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,460
    Yes, but it will take six hours of video to do it.
  • Chris Ruckdeschel
    Posts: 34
    I think I remember Mocquereau writing that one scribe would write the text of a chant and another the music. As a result, the spacing (he claimed) was not always an accurate indication of the musical intention.

    I think the space may not be the best visual clue for someone sightreading a piece; however, at least from my experience, this is never the case. In the bit of the score Jeff presented above, for example, I think it is pretty clear what his intention was.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,709
    As a composer, i would assert that we do not have a single interpretation of our own works. It is also important for the performer(s) to realize their own interpretations as composers rely on their intrinsic artistic ability. Search the Internet on s single title and then compare. No two will be the same. That is because we don't expect or want it ever to be the same.
  • SkirpRSkirpR
    Posts: 854
    I've always enjoyed musing on the ways that the subtlely of notation can effect the success of the performance of a piece of music. I was in a recital a couple years ago where we were singing a very simple Mozart choral work, but the notation in the edition we were using was very poorly done - with inconsistent spacing in every possible way. The ensemble was fairly good, and there was much more difficult music on that concert, but the Mozart was consistently one of the weakest pieces, and the conductor was always puzzled as to why. To me, the answer was clear. To make another example, how many people would enjoy reading a book that had awkward spacing beween the words and paragraphs, or for which the typeface changed arbitrarily on each page? Something about it would be off-putting, or would get in the way of comprehending what you were reading - especially if it was not an "easy read" to begin with. The moment my attention is drawn to the notation, there is usually (not always) something wrong with it.

    Not every singer or musicians may be completely aware of the subtleties of notation (good or bad), but I suggest that they're all effected by it. This is why there are standards for notation. And even though they're not codified for us, like liturgical rubrics are, there are indeed unwritten standards of spacing, etc. that can be observed among the best publishing houses.

    That's not to say there cannot be innovation in notation, but it must be done at the composer's own risk when a perfectly good "standard" way of notating the same effect exists. I am not bothered by Jeff's graphical separation shown above - probably because I wouldn't have noticed it unless he pointed it out. I think it might be helpful, but I also think he would be foolish to try it without the tenuto on the preceeding note or the comma after "Son" in the text and expect it to be performed as he desires. (And thinking about it myself, I might have just used a quarter-bar.)
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