From the other side of the road.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,607
    From another list in response to a message from Paul Ford about training sessions:

    I'm not posting to belittle or criticize this person, but it is interesting to see the response to an esteemed Seminary Professor's posting. Note that this is a person who believes that the Gloria in Latin is sing as an antiphon and response, as it has been treated in the recent past.

    "I can agree on most of your suggestions, but where I'm serving at the moment, to teach anything in regards to the new translation by teaching something in Latin would be counterproductive. We sing the Kyrie and Agnus Dei well here to connect with our heritage. Maybe the Sanctus could be taught down the road (a ways down the road), but the Gloria? The refrain would be simple - the rest of the text? I would have to have a better reason than "just because" it's from our tradition. Our people sing fantastically in their native tongue. I truly believe that God hears their praise and thanksgiving very well indeed..."

    I am sure that there are many priests, including those that have taught this person what he expects the music at Mass to be, that feel exactly the same way.

    Since they have never experienced and studied the Mass but have just done what they are told by NPM And others, they really can't be held accountable for this attitude. It is distressing that there is not connection with what the church wants, rather she is adamant that what is important is what she and what she thinks the people want. Refusing to respect "our tradition" is a sign of a church that is headed away from unity within itself.

    But anyone can change. (this is a reference to the predominance of paragraphs above, Kathy)
  • MaryAnn Carr WilsonMaryAnn Carr Wilson
    Posts: 1,738
    I have found Paul VI's 1974 'letter to bishops on the minimum repertoire of plainchant' to be very helpful when discussing things like this. The accompanying chant packet is freely downloadable in a few places, including the main Musica Sacra site, if I'm not mistaken.
    Though it was not widely appreciated or even known, this is a small and accessible body of chant the Church already deems 'minimal'. It is perfectly in line with council documents, and brings clarity to varied ideas of what the faithful deserve, again at a minimum.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,607
    It would helpful to do a survey and find out how many people actually know about this who are employed by churches. I'd hazard to say that more volunteers doing church music know more about it than employed members, since so many of them say that they were drafted into the job and have had no training.

    But, doing church surveys in this diocese of musicians - even to find out who the musicians are - results in less than 10% of them and their parishes responding. And phone calls to church secretaries have been met with suspicion and rudeness.

    I am sure that a pulp guide to what to sing at Mass gets more respect than Paul Ford did here. These are also the people who roll their eyes when recently ordained seminarians have the nerve to talk with them about church music.
  • SkirpRSkirpR
    Posts: 854
    I started my musical life as a church musician - if you could call it that - playing songs from the Gatber hymnal for Mass in high school on the piano (to be fair we didn't have a working organ). Then I left church music aside (short of attending Mass and occasionally singing in some choirs) for a while and became a conductor and music teacher.

    I became aware of the tradition of sacred music slowly, and when I interviewed for my last part-time choirmaster job before starting my doctorate, the priest asked me what I could do - I said that musically I could do everything from Christian rock to Gather Comprehensive to chant and Renaissance polyphony. He stopped and said, "that." "What? All of it?!" I asked. He said, "no, the last one."

    Needless to say, I learned how to do "that" (I'm still learning, aren't we all?), and I never looked back. I'm eternally grateful to that man for the opportunity and the challenge.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,460
    Skirp

    That is the best interview/hiring story I've seen on this board.
  • incantuincantu
    Posts: 989
    This is what I do:

    Take a copy of the 1974 Graduale Romanum, the Liber antiphonarius (or Antiphonale Monasticum), and the Liber Hymnarius, and set them down on the table saying, "this is traditional music of the Church that is currently in use, including a selection of at least 18 Mass ordinaries as well as hundreds of antiphons and hymns, some newly composed to fill a need in the revised modern liturgies. This music is prayed and sung every day the world over."

    Then take a copy of the Jubilate Deo booklet and place it next to the stack saying, "This is the traditional music of the the Church that was designated after Vatican II as a minimum common repertoire for all Catholics, music that is included in every hymnal and worship aid intended for exclusive use at Mass, music that the US Bishops recently stated can and must be taught to all the faithful regardless of age, and which was used as a model for the newly composed musical settings of the English ordinary that will be published in the new Sacramentary."

    Then look back and forth at the two stacks of music. Silently. Back and forth.

    If that is not enough (and really, it should be), try singing the gradual Viderunt omnes (from memory, if possible) as an example of the traditional music that is intended to be sung by a trained choir. Then, sing the Sanctus XVIII as an example of traditional music that is intended to be sung by a congregation of faithful with little or no musical training, and that you have heard successfully sung by a group of second graders.

    In conclusion, I would suggest that singing a piece of Ambrosian or Old Roman chant; or an antiphon, hymn, or sequence that is no longer part of our modern liturgy would be a fine and welcome way to "connect to our heritage," but that the chants that belong to the congregation, and which have been confirmed in every ritual book published since Vatican II, are very much a part of the "here and now."
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