A Conversation by the water cooler ... about Sacred music!
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    Sacred vs. Secular music at Mass . . . by the water cooler!

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    Sacred vs. Secular music at Mass . . . by the water cooler!

    Gloria TV version

    Blip TV version
  • Randolph Nichols
    Posts: 398
    Jeff,

    Though Watershed produces some of the best music resources available today, I really think you ought to reconsider or greatly improve upon this cartoon product. The characters are so wooden and humorless that they invite derision. Or am I just missing something here. Is the primitive mechanized speech supposed to be funny. Maybe it's just another generational thing that those of us of a certain age can't quite grasp?
  • Randolph Nichols
    Posts: 398
    See what you've done. The lack of vocal inflection totally screwed up my use of question marks.
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,048
    Yeah, you're missing something here. This is a product of speech to cartoon software. Various of these little vids, with the same wooden presentation, have gone viral over the net (there's one about voice students at the Berklee School which is devastating.)

    The woman's a very tough cookie, though...and smart. Nice job.
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    Randolph,

    All I can say is that the way the characters talk makes me laugh.

    They're almost . . . robotic!

    That being said, if anyone is introduced to Church legislation they didn't previously know about, then the goal has been accomplished.

    (And double if they smile while watching!!!)

    :-)

    By the way, this medium is extremely limited in what is possible . . . so it ends up being more of a conversation starter than a final word.

    I think of this cartoon the same way I think of that little MUG Jeff T. posted on the side of his blog --- it's light-hearted.
  • MaryAnn Carr WilsonMaryAnn Carr Wilson
    Posts: 1,738
    Jeff O, moving forward on all fronts!
    While I wouldn't call you robotic, you do have a touch of the energizer bunny. :)
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    This is hysterical!

    I particularly like the dead-pan delivery of objections.
    "Why don't you like to be entertained at Mass?"

    I wanted him to say "Why do you hate to be happy?"

    He kinda reminds me of Christopher Walken.
  • JamJam
    Posts: 636
    come on, some decent voice acting wouldn't be too difficult to get for this...
  • Jeffrey CogginsJeffrey Coggins
    Posts: 360
    Jeff O, for most (if not all) of the CCWatershed sacred music videos, are these primarily the sources for rubrics/guidelines? Are there other sources as well?

    De musica sacra et sacra liturgia - Instruction on Sacred Music and Sacred Liturgy (1958)

    General Instruction of the Roman Missal (1975/2002)

    Musicae Sacrae Disciplina - Pope Pius XII On Sacred Music (1955)

    Musicam Sacram - Instruction on Music in the Liturgy (1967)

    Sing To The Lord (2007)

    Tra le Sollecitudini - Motu Proprio of Pope Pius X on Sacred Music (1903)

    Voluntati Obsequens (1974)
  • Steve CollinsSteve Collins
    Posts: 1,021
    Well, I was watching the series of three conversations between a "stage mom" and the music teacher - and was ROTFL! I think it's great!
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    Friends,

    Thank you for these observations!
  • Randolph Nichols
    Posts: 398
    That there is a generation gap regarding wit and comedy I don’t think can be denied. I encounter it especially with my youngest child (she’s in her early thirties). As an example when she was in college my wife and I gave her a copy of the film “A New Leaf,” starring Elaine May and Walther Mathau. My generation tends to regard May in particular as a comedic genius so we just assumed that appreciation would be universal. Her comment on seeing the film was “And you like this?”

    Jeff, follow your instincts.
  • MarkThompson
    Posts: 768
    Man: I guess it makes sense that music written by people in the twentieth century should not replace Catholic music which has been refined for well over one thousand years.

    Woman: That is correct.


    Oh, snap! Take that, Kevin Allen!
  • BachLover2BachLover2
    Posts: 330
    this is hilarious. congrats. still laughing, over here!
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,048
    "Take that, Kevin Allen!"
    Yes, that was the one line that irked me too. More of that "If your name isn't Gregory, you're not wanted here."
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    I've never met the man, but I'd be willing to bet Kevin Allen wouldn't want his music to replace the Catholic music which has been refined for well over one thousand years.
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,048
    I bet Kevin wouldn't want to write a whole Ordinary cycle. I don't think I would. I wouldn't mind HAVING WRITTEN a whole Ordinary cycle, but I'm not up to the writing.
    Naw, we just want to replace a LITTLE of it.
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    Two thoughts:

    1. I believe that Kevin Allen would be very upset if everyone THREW OUT the entire musical patrimony of the Catholic Church and did NOTHING but his music.

    2. Kevin Allen's music is based on theoretical principals that have always been honored by the Church.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    OK

    Here it is from three of my sons...

    19... I think it would be better to switch the man with the woman. first of all, men were the original teachers of the church. It's fine for women to know and understand all this, but if we are talking about tradition, then men were originally the teachers.

    16... As a musician myself, who plays electric guitar and loves rock music, am still able to see the point in this video. The video itself is tacky because of the veggie tale style.

    13... This could be much better. The message behind it was good, even if it had overly perfect grammer/vocabulary. If you made a new version with real people, with a more emotional and human dialogue then not only the message would be portrayed in a greater quality but the message would get across on a deeper level, and not distracted by mechanical animation.

    And then me, 55, thinks its hilarious. I think this appeals to older people as opposed to the younger crowd.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Two annoying characters. Wouldn't you like to slap both of them? LOL.
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    How can anyone argue with a CARTOON ???

    :-)

    :-)
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    It's a cartoon, yes. But we probably all know people who embody many of the qualities of those characters. I know I do, and I have encountered one or two of them on this forum. LOL. It is funny, but were you trying to get people to laugh with you, or at you?
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    Everybody keeps saying she's a "vampire chick." What does this mean?

    I just got a message from an 1962-Rite priest who says, "I like the vampire chick."

    AM I MISSING MY OWN JOKE?? (please explain)
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    She did look a bit vampire-ish with the fangs showing when she talked. That was the first thing I noticed.
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,048
    I'd hit on her... if I were an unmarried collection of pixels. ;-)
  • BachLover2BachLover2
    Posts: 330
    jeffrey quick: without question, i would, too. :)
  • Charles in CenCA
    Posts: 2,416
    CharlesW
    She did look a bit vampire-ish with the fangs showing when she talked. That was the first thing I noticed.
    Jeffrey Quick
    I'd hit on her... if I were an unmarried collection of pixels. ;-)


    I've lived long enough now to know that I've lived too long....
    CMAA meets Twilight, say it ain't so, AO!
  • JamJam
    Posts: 636
    this generation gap thing is weeeeeird. I'm definitely on the "um, what?" side of it.
  • Jeffrey CogginsJeffrey Coggins
    Posts: 360
    The only thing better than this would be a real life "candid camera" encounter between two liturgical music directors - one who is "pro-Gregorian chant" and the other who is "pro-secular style".
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,048
    A reality TV show where "pastoral musicians" show up at a William Mahrt Schola rehearsal and are expected to know their business, and chanters have an American Idol-style competition for the best rendition of On Eagles' Wings?
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    JC... that would be rivetting.
  • Charles in CenCA
    Posts: 2,416
    @Jeffrey Quick,
    I have to confess that at Dusquene in June I tried, without success, to convince JT and the other tenors in Mahrt's schola to begin chanting OEW (not American Idol, but more like Monks of San Benzedrine) at a moment the professor would least expect it. Tucker will likely deny any complicity in the plot. But it turns out it was likely for the better. I'd already irritated Mary Jane way too much by then anyway with my antics.
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,048
    Hmm...I'm planning on going. Maybe I should refrain, just to save you all from temptation and instigation. Though then, not being a real Catholic (yet), I don't yet have OEW imprinted on my DNA
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    The cartoon I created is up to 7,000 views (when you count Gloria TV).

    I received a note from a retired Archbishop who LOVES IT and totally "gets" it. He's close to 80 years old....

    I've also received notes from very intelligent people who say, "The dialogue is so stilted...."

    But...that's what makes it funny!!
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    Here is a peculiar way to make an important point, Fr. Shelton says...

    http://fathershelton.blogspot.com/2010/10/can-secular-be-sacred.html
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    A blog about it HERE.
  • DougS
    Posts: 793
    I LOVE this cartoon, JO. Both characters are hilarious.
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    Thanks, Doug !
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,577
    Jeff O: AM I MISSING MY OWN JOKE?? (please explain)

    0:10
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    After watching this cartoon, a YouTube user made the following comment:

    "Ah Catholicism - one of the great religions of the 14th century, determined to remain so."
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    Does anyone else get a "How to Tie a Bowtie" video in the suggestions sidebar when viewing this on YouTube?

    Hmmm.....
  • Jeffrey TuckerJeffrey Tucker
    Posts: 3,624
    hmmm that is regrettable. I made that in one take to say hi to some friends. I should really take it down!
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    :)
    It wasn't you.
    It was a professional clothier.
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