Question about the Introit
  • Hello everyone! Greetings from the Philippines. I am a new comer to this community. Just want to ask something about the introit. The gloria patri part is not written out completely; therefore, where should I get the tone for the rest of that part? Moreover, what is the purpose of those vowels at the end of the introit?

    Looking forward,

    Theus IV
  • here is a Gloria Patri sheet - match the introit mode with the same in the Gloria
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    (Gloria Patri jpg for each of the eight Gregorian modes)

    Gloria Patri JPEG
  • Maureen
    Posts: 662
    You may have figured this out from looking at the examples....

    EUOUAE is one of those weird medieval Latin scribe abbreviations.
    It's the vowels in the Latin "saEcUlOrUm AmEn" (the final words of the Doxology).

    So the purpose is just "I don't feel like writing out the rest of this, because 'saeculorum' is a long word and takes up a lot of space." You can see where that comes in handy for typesetters of scores, also.
  • May I suggest other motivations for the "weird" abbreviations? Adding on to: "I don't feel like writing out the rest of this, because 'saeculorum' is a long word and takes up a lot of space."

    The "takes up a lot of space" idea is well taken, as parchment was a very costly material, taking many workers weeks or months to prepare it, from raising the animal to finishing the final sheets. It would have been quite extravagant to write out Gloria Patri over and over. The clerics who sang from these books learned the Gloria Patri by heart as novices, and sang it many times each day. So all they really needed was a reminder of which psalm tone ending to use with this particular Introit.

    In our day, the constraining factor is not so much the paper or pixels needed to write out Gloria Patri, but the knowledge and experience that was presumed for the monks of old. It's terrific to see the poster here stepping in and providing the missing knowledge to folks who want to learn.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,390
    Side note:
    EUOUAE was so common that it came to be considered it's own word. And it is an official Scrabble word- and the longest one made entirely of vowels.
  • incantuincantu
    Posts: 989
    In an act of shameless self promotion, I feel compelled to mention that Euouae is also a new vocal ensemble devoted to performing Medieval and Renaissance music, Gregorian chant, and unconventional notation (including New Music). You can hear a sample of the women's ensemble here.
  • The Gloria Patri (lesser doxology) forms are also in the Liber usualis, grouped by tone and termination.
  • gregpgregp
    Posts: 632
    EUOUAE would make a great vanity plate, if it hasn't happened already.
  • Yes, Greg! Bill Stoops in VA, longtime CMAA man, has the plates.
    But you can go for it in CA, no? :)
  • gregpgregp
    Posts: 632
    I thought I had heard that before, but I'm at that point where the hard drive is full, and anything that's not immediately useful gets deleted.
  • Thank you very much everyone. Gregorian chant is totally eradicated here in my country, thanks to our bishops and priest who favored modernism, over what is proper in the faith. We took this brave step a couple of months ago. Yes, our schola has decided to be such: sing gregorian chants, wear robes, learn the rubrics etc. Oddly, the "Summorum Pontficum" was not made known here in my country, for whatever reasons our bishops have in mind. They do not even inform the faithful about the possibility of having a TLM celebrated in the parish.

    Nonetheless, I am very happy to be a part of this community. It is good to know that I am not alone in this. When we started singing simple chants, wearing our robes, and mantilla for the female members, the members of the parish pastoral council, and the MCST sisters treated the members with hostility. To name some of them, they switch off the microphone on the parts where the schola would sing a gregorian chants. There are number of hostile acts, but just this week, they forbid us to receive communion, simply because we kneel to receive the eucharist.

    I do not know what is wrong with these people. When I confronted them about their reasons, well, they simply said that what we are doing are pre-Vatican II practices. Therefore, I challenged them to present to me any Catholic Doctrines and Dogma, as well as known documents of the church that would say that what we are doing are in contradiction to the catholic faith. To my surprise, even the MSCT sisters, do not seem to know anything about the liturgy. They remain, however, hostile to us. We will continue, nonetheless, with what we have started. Indeed, there is a war going on. I simply remind the schola that the priest and the bishop is not the church. We are accountable to God as a catholic, not to the priest and the bishops. We come to church to worship God and not to please any priest.

    Theusiv
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    Theusiv,
    Thank you so much for sharing it with us. I'll pray for you. My schola started in an area where almost no parishes had Gregorian chants and no Latin. But after 3 years of our small schola singing Greogrian chant, many things started to change. Trust in the Lord and please keep up your good work.
    I believe all your sacrifices will be rewarded in heaven. (and please don't forget to pray for those who perscute you.)

    Mia Coyne
  • miacoyne,

    Thank you for offering your prayers for us. The greater issue in my parish has nothing do so much about gregorian and latin, it is much deeper than that. The members of the choir, in fact, are mostly out-of-school youth. Many of them belong to the poorest of the community. They walk from 7-10 kms just to attend the mass and the rehearsal. These young people are known in the community as delinquents. Yes, they really are. However, since the founding of the choir, which was not actually latin but modern type, we, the founding members of the group have seen the enormous transformation of these young people. Slowly, they learned discipline, perhaps because of the support they are getting from the group. One day, they showed me a video of a TLM mass. They want the mass to be as solemn like what they saw in the video. I did not initiated anything, it was them who wanted to bring back the solemnity of the mass. So what should I do? The least is to be supportive. The rest is history. The braved to dare what everybody thought is impossible for them to achieve: Learn the gregorian chants, learn the rubrics, and be a good catholic. From the name Gloria Dei Chamber Singers, they changed it to Gloria Dei Schola Cantorum to signify their commitment to the liturgy. So far, they are the only parish choir in the roman catholic parishes in my country who sings gregorian chants exclusively in the mass. The hostility towards them is more than the issue of the liturgy, it is because they are poor. Sad but is true. Please do continue to pray for us.

    Theusiv
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,574
    theusiv,

    they switch off the microphone
    Without knowing it, they might be helping you! Parishioners will strain to hear, therefore, real active participation! :-)

    documents of the church
    You will enjoy sharing this ...
    http://musicasacra.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2182
  • eft,

    Thank you for providing me the links the documents of the church. By the way, our schola is located in the choir loft. Our church is a big one; therefore, we are only using once choir microphone to provide amplification for singing. Switching the mics off is the same as telling the choir not to sing because it is practically impossible to be heard without the microphone.

    Theusiv
  • rsven
    Posts: 43
    Very inspiring story. Keep up the good work. The history of the Church is the history of poor singers showing the way. Thank you. I am in the same boat with you!
  • I am amused, in a grim sort of way, by the notion of chant singing being treated like another manifestation of juvenile delinquency. When they hate you, it's probably evidence that you're doing something right.

    I had no idea the Philippines were so far behind the curve n re-enchantment. I had thought that particular take on Vatican II was purely American. And I have to wonder what the situation would be now if Spain had held onto you for a few more years. In any case, it's a good fight, so fight on!
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    They want the mass to be as solemn like what they saw in the video [TLM].... The braved to dare what everybody thought is impossible for them to achieve: Learn the gregorian chants, learn the rubrics, and be a good catholic.

    How inspiring !!!

    This morning after the weekly Traditional Mass (Low Mass), I had a chance to tell the priest and others about your story. They were amazed. I want you to know your story can inspire people in America, especially middle class Catholics in nice suburb area like here, where even those who know Latin and Gregorian chant are the Church's own offical language and music, that is sacred, universal and beautiful, they neglect them or want to avoid them. Mostly because they are out of their 'comfort zone,' and they require their extra time and commitment to learn while they are busy something like sports and other 'activities.'

    God raises the poor, weak and lowly to show His power.
    Praise His name.
  • mahrt
    Posts: 514
    EUOUEA is already taken in California, by a member of my choir, whohas had it for probably 30 years