Well, that new Director of Music didn't last long...
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    Director of Liturgical Ministries
    St. Catholic Church
    Email: xxxxxxxxxxx.com
    Website: www.xxxxxxxxxx.com
    HLP------- Posted 07/02/10

    Vibrant, diverse 800 family parish seeks energetic, motivated Director of Liturgical Ministries to grow thriving liturgy and music programs. Responsibilities include planning and coordinating all liturgies; directing SATB adult choir, men’s choir, and handbell choir; coordinating all parish musicians, English and Spanish; coordinating the development and scheduling of all liturgical ministers. Spanish fluency helpful but not required. Requires Bachelor’s Degree or equivalent experience, experience in choral direction, understanding of requirements of Sing to the Lord and GIRM, basic computer skills, proficiency in keyboards and music composition. Full-time position, with salary and benefits commensurate with qualifications. E-mail applications to xxxxxxxxxxxxx

    __________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Director of Liturgical Ministries
    St. Catholic Church
    Email: xxxxxxxxxxx.com
    Website: www.xxxxxxxxxx.com
    HLP------- 08/30/10

    Vibrant, diverse, 800 family parish seeks energetic, motivated Director to grow thriving liturgy and music programs. Responsibilities include planning and coordinating all liturgies; directing SATB adult choir, men’s choir, handbell choir; coordinating all parish musicians, English and Spanish; and coordinating the development and scheduling of all liturgical ministers. Spanish fluency helpful but not required. Requires Bachelor’s Degree or equivalent experience, experience in choral direction, understanding of the requirements of Sing to the Lord and the GIRM, basic computer skills, and proficiency in keyboards and music composition. Full-time position with salary and benefits commensurate with qualifications. Email applications to xxxxxxxxxx.

    This is not a mistake, job was filled, job is open again. Welcome to The World Of Church Music.
    Thanked by 1Chris Hebard
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,086
    Ah, but if you know that it was filled, perhaps you know why it unfilled?
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,215
    A little bit of internet searching found the ads on NPM's site.

    It's not obvious that the job really was filled, unless Noel means that someone was hired but never actually started.

    The staff list in the parish bulletins hasn't changed since the first job ad in July.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    How to put this...person is offered job, person takes job, person then decides not to take job.

    Obviously there was no one else qualified that applied, so they are starting all over again.

    Trinity Wall Street did sort of the same thing, but they announced that none of the applicants were qualified and they were looking all over again. Guess this one is doing the same thing.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,978
    I think we have all heard of those "toxic" jobs that are rarely filled for very long. Sometimes the relationship between a musician and a particular position just doesn't work out. The reasons for that, and related details may, or may never, be fully known. It's best to move on and find something else. When you get right down to it, there's not all that much job security in Catholic music jobs to begin with. Teaching in Catholic schools isn't any better. Most often there is no tenure and contracts are for 1 year periods, only. Most of the musicians I know who have been in the same positions for years, are working for Protestant churches.
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,700
    Prior to me getting my current position, there was something like 5 music directors in 7 years - a lot of turn-over. Most of what I heard about the previous directors were that they misrepresented themselves during the interview-process. Perhaps we all need to be a bit more honest and not be afraid to say, "I'm not very good at ____," or "______ is not my area of expertise."
  • dad29
    Posts: 2,232
    Most likely 'splanation: a counter-offer from the other employer.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,508
    That is very likely indeed. Offered job, tries to resign, current employer improves package to retain valued employee.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    No, accepted job, told old church he was leaving, thenew church that had hired him withdrew the ad because he had accepted the job, found out that he changed his mind, had to place the ad all over again with NPM.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,508
    We're saying pretty much the same thing.

    Is there a reason for this thread, by the way?
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    Must be, otherwise you wouldn't be responding.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    Reason for thread:

    Evidence that if you want to be considered a serious church musician, you enter into a dialogue with your current employer before confirming with a new employer that are accepting a new job.

    Now a church that has advertised, interviewed, narrowed down the choices, offered the job, had it accepted, cancelled the NPM ad now finds themselves having to begin all over again because the person of their choice backed out.

    But you figured that out already.

    And there are people in this group right now saying, "Hm. I hadn't thought of it that way. I'll keep this in mind and not get caught in the middle of a situation where two employers may end up not being happy with me."
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,508
    The reason for this thread is to give advice to someone who has his pick of two jobs, in this job climate, about how to be considered a serious church musician?
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    Chonak's got it. Person accepted job, former parish convinced him not to quit and he backed out on the job he had just accepted.

    "It's not obvious that the job really was filled, unless Noel means that someone was hired but never actually started."
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,215
    Well, dad29 gets credit for suggesting a counter-offer; that was his idea.

    Noel's advice is contrary to the career advice I used to get as an IT guy: to never take a counter-offer; it wouldn't result in much job security. But then IT people are probably more easily replaceable and less distinctive than musicians are.
  • Maureen
    Posts: 678
    I'm just stunned at how much they want their person to do. That's a job for more than one person.
  • dad29
    Posts: 2,232
    The advice Chonak was given is absolutely correct.

    ANOTHER possibility is that the musician accepted the job and then found out that he cannot sell his home without incurring more debt--that is, that he's "upside down" on the mortgage.

    Ergo, he had to "un-accept" the job.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    No, I am aware of the situation. The new job involved a living wage, 25 more miles to drive. This all transpired over just a week. Old job counter-offered, he backed out.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,508
    Again, what is the purpose of this thread? It serves no good purpose that I can see. It seems like mean-spirited gossip.
  • marajoymarajoy
    Posts: 783
    ha...or else, rather than being intentionally gossip-y, it just sounds like certain people trying to "show-off" their knowledge of inner-workings of various employers and employees, all the while pretending to be so discrete by being vague; as if anyone really cared in the first place!
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    There are members of this list who are interested in better understanding how to function effectively as a church musician. This is an example of an unfortunate situation which can result in distrust of church musicians.

    Sorry that this is not considered to be worth discussing. While there may be people here who feel it is, obviously there are those who are not interested.
  • MaryAnn Carr WilsonMaryAnn Carr Wilson
    Posts: 1,738
    Peace to you, Frogman.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    I've worked in many Diocese...Dioceses? Ohio, Manhattan, Brooklyn (there's a job open at a church in Brooklyn, NY I was at years and years ago, right on the edge of a huge park) and Germany and Italy...really, they are all the same.

    The same situations over and over again. No diocese is any different from any other.

    There are always a few priests who are absolutely GRAND to work with, and another few who are best avoided.

    Being a church musician today is like being a radio announcer...I was on-air fundraising or public radio when a well-known Country and Western Disk Jockey came in. I told her how great she sounded on the air when she was introducing the music and she turned to me and said, "I hate that !@#$ music."

    It was a job. She was a professional.

    You know, I have found that it is the kiss of death if you successfully arrange to put your classically trained choir in the loft with the guitar group for Confirmation. It works, people love it, the group LOVES having real singers and even drops out and lets verses go a capella!

    But it weakens your support from people who are elitist and think that that music is @#$%.

    Of course it is, but one should be professional.

    I brought up the situation because it was funny seeing what appeared to be a misprint, the same ad repeated twice in the same column.

    There are people that may have the opportunity to be offered another job and have to weigh "should I go or should I stay?"
    Isn't that a rock song?
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