Liturgical Musicians Deployment Center
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    A private discussion group only for the support of musicians seeking employment

    It's a tough world out there...we need to network and share the knowledge and help each other.

    http://groups.google.com/group/lit-music-deployment

    This is only for people considering and seeking new employment and people who might be able to give insight and guidance into actual situations.

    Nicknames only.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    First discussion underway over there. "Should resumes contain dates of education and employment?"
  • DougS
    Posts: 793
    That's a really tough question. From the perspective of the hiring party, "Yes." From the applicant, "Not necessarily."

    An older applicant doesn't want to walk unwittingly into an ageism scenario, but the hiring party doesn't want a job hopper or someone who has something to hide.

    For a fearful older applicant, I think a good solution might be to provide an A-heading of education without dates and an A-heading of employment from the past 10-15 years. Under the A-heading, put something to the effect of, "[Employment history before 1995 available upon request]." The hiring committee wants to know what your accomplishments are and what you are capable of, and surely the work history from the previous 10-15 years can demonstrate that. Regarding education, it shouldn't matter if you got a degree in 1967 or 1987. For younger applicants, serious academic study is a notch in your favor, so there is no reason to leave off the dates--be proud of them!

    For the job hopper, you just have to suck it up, put the dates, and be prepared to explain the spotty work history.

    I'm sure there are other scenarios where omitting the dates might be prudent, but in general, I think it's better to be as forthcoming as possible.
  • dad29
    Posts: 2,233
    While it is impossible to 'read the minds' of 'hiring committees,' I would be shocked and VERY disappointed if the Church is age-discriminatory.

    At the same time, it's my experience that churches ARE 'salary-discriminatory;' so they are very reluctant to converse with individuals over the age of 50 (to pick a number) b/c the perception is that they will demand big bucks.

    Sad.
  • DougS
    Posts: 793
    True--ageism is ageism for whatever the reason.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,995
    Priests and people in the church who do hiring, can be just as corrupt, dishonest, and badly behaved as anyone in any secular business. People tend to behave the same all over.
  • JaneC
    Posts: 6
    Churches certainly can be age-discriminatory. My husband, being quite young, has experienced this going both ways. Even though he has ten years' experience as an organist (paid positions) and two years heading up his own ensemble, he has been turned down for being too inexperienced even for jobs where he'd be an assistant, not the primary music director.

    Conversely, he was recently told that he was a good candidate for a particular job because he was "young and enthusiastic." He ultimately withdrew from that hiring process for several reasons, but partly because he wants to be hired for being a capable and knowledgable musician, not because he's young. He's also been in situations where "we like your youth and enthusiasm" is code for "we think we'll be able to push you around and re-model you in our own image."
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