New job
  • PaixGioiaAmorPaixGioiaAmor
    Posts: 1,473
    I have just accepted a new position as director of music in a parish whose pastor is a proponent of the "reform of the reform". The organ is the only instrument used at mass. The pastor chants the dialogues.

    There is significant work to be done; the choir needs to be reinvigorated and built up. The reperatoire needs to move towards more chant and propers and away from english hymns. But this is really a place to make things happen! And, even now, just as the music program is, there is no "All Are Welcome" or "We Are Called". I will take english hymns that express orthodox theology ANY DAY to the place I just came from, which is currently posted on the NPM page as a job opening (my lips will remain sealed on which job it is).

    I am so very lucky - and so on top of the world.

    For those of you in bad situations, maintain hope and keep your ears open. I used to jealously read of people like David Andrew finding these great jobs and think "what are the chances?" Well, now it has happened to me. Never lose hope.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,978
    Congratulations and prayers for your every success in this new job.
  • David AndrewDavid Andrew
    Posts: 1,206
    PGA,

    Congratulations! It is always heartening to hear that good jobs are out there, good priests are to be found and positive, rewarding work can be done.

    Just remember: the grass may be greener on the other side of the fence, but it still needs mowing!
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,577
    The organ specification?
    :-)
  • PaixGioiaAmorPaixGioiaAmor
    Posts: 1,473
    eft -

    It is a digital, but it is massive. 5 manual Baldwin, installed in the year 2000. For a digital, it's pretty nice, probably about the nicest I have ever played. Of course, in this church, I think ANYTHING would sound great with the 5 second reverb ...
  • henry
    Posts: 244
    Congratulations and God's blessings upon you in your new job. Where did you hear about it? I find that most orthodox parishes don't advertise in the usual places (NPM, diocesan music offices, etc) but by word of mouth.
  • PaixGioiaAmorPaixGioiaAmor
    Posts: 1,473
    Henry -

    The job was never posted or advertised AT ALL, ANYWHERE, including with the diocesan worship office. I heard from a friend of the then current director that the then current director was leaving. I e-mailed the pastor and said "If it IS true that he is leaving and IF you are looking to replace him, I am interested in the position." Two other people also heard the rumor (which was true) and did the same. We became his three candidates for the position. I was very, VERY lucky.
  • marajoymarajoy
    Posts: 783
    why do priests do that? Like, not advertise a job in the usual manner (so that they get a *larger* number of qualified applicants from which to choose)?
    I mean, I'm not necessarily complaining, since I once got a job in a similar manner (and I'm GLAD,) but something about it does seem unethical.
    (I thought I read somewhere once about Catholic church jobs needing to be publicized in 2 different locations? or maybe that's just a diocesan policy?)
    Do priests go the "word-of-mouth" route cuz it's easier? (less applicants to deal with? if they already know of a qualified applicant, why bother dealing with piles of resumes?)
    And, since I am honestly not very familiar with the application process of any other professions besides that of church musicians; do people in other professions also often get hired without an official and public application/job posting?
  • Andrew Motyka
    Posts: 946
    It definitely happens in other jobs, especially academia. I agree that it sounds unethical, but it's not blatantly against the rules unless there's a diocesan policy.

    I happen to know, for example, that there is a vacancy in the DoM position at the cathedral in Greensburg, PA. Their director just left a week or two ago. I haven't seen a posting anywhere.
  • Carl DCarl D
    Posts: 992
    This is a common practice in the business world, to the point where 80% of the jobs never get posted at all. Key factors:

    * If you get someone from within the company, they're more of a "known quantity" = less risk

    * If you publicize a job opening, even for one day, you may have to slog through a thousand applications - 75% of whom aren't really qualified to even submit a resume.

    So it's real common to send out the word on the QT first, and see if an excellent PaixGioiaAmor might just happen to fall in your lap. If so, you're happy, they're happy, and you didn't have to do tons and tons of work. I can't say that I find it particularly unethical, although it can seem like it if you're one who waits for jobs to be posted before doing anything.

    Carl
  • David AndrewDavid Andrew
    Posts: 1,206
    Speaking of job postings . . .

    The Cathedral of St. Paul in St. Paul, MN is currently seeking a Director of Music. The information is posted to the AGO website, although information is sketchy at best.

    I'll do a "cut and paste" and post it.
  • PaixGioiaAmorPaixGioiaAmor
    Posts: 1,473
    Not sure I follow how it could be "unethical". There is nothing unethical about choosing not to advertise a job and see who happens to fall into your lap. The only time ethics would come into play would be if, for instance, the pastor was looking to replace the DOM without telling him/her and going behind his/her back to find potential candidates without advertising, which would mean that the incumbant DOM would find out. That is definately NOT what happened here.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,978
    When I was hired, the pastor asked the outgoing organist for a recommendation. She gave him my name, I came and played for an early morning mass, and he hired me within a couple of days. The position was never advertised. There was nothing unethical about it, since there has never been any requirement that positions have to be advertised. Advertising is to find qualified applicants when you don't have any at hand.
  • marajoymarajoy
    Posts: 783
    maybe "unethical" was the incorrect word...but wouldn't it be at least unfair if, let's say, there was someone else who was extremely qualified-maybe even moreso than the person who ended up being hired, and they had been looking everywhere they could think of really hard for exactly that sort of job, and just didn't have the right "connections."
    IF I were that person (which I'm not, nor have I ever been,) and I found out that occurred, I would be quite annoyed since I hadn't even been given the opportunity to apply. But I suppose the response to that is that the priest/boss is at liberty to do what he wants, and if he doesn't want to do the extra work of dealing with tons of applications, then it's really going to be him (and the parish) who misses out if there were a better person.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,978
    Life is often "unfair" and we don't live in a perfect world. For any job, posted or unposted, there may be thousands of people who could do it adequately. Most will never know that the job is available, and most employers have no desire to spend years wading through resumes and interviews. I think most of us could look at our job and honestly say that someone out there could likely do it better. If an employer needs someone now, waiting for that hypothetical perfect candidate is impractical and not worth it.

    For myself, I am going to rejoice for PaixGioiaAmor's new job and and for every success and blessing in it.
  • DougS
    Posts: 793
    I certainly appreciate both sides of this issue, because my wife and I have both gotten jobs in the field through local connections and national searches. Nevertheless, I definitely lean toward national advertisements, or at least an advertisement in the local Catholic paper or on the diocesan HR website. Otherwise there is no hope for exceptionally strong applicants to be able to relocate to an area where they may have few connections.

    There is no mandate that a boss do a publicized national search, but on the other hand, said boss could end up with a local yokel who will only do enough to get by. Good applicants and liturgically starving parishes suffer as a result. Reading job applications, in my opinion, is part of the job of being a boss, so the issue of "slogging" through them is moot. I'm sure priests don't want to read a lot of e-mails about how bad the liturgy was, either.
  • Jeffrey TuckerJeffrey Tucker
    Posts: 3,624
    Lots of times companies use third-party firms that hunt for workers, and thereby never have to announce the job opening. It is the task of the head hunter to do all the looking. this seems to work well. Public announcements of open positions do indeed open the floodgates and lead to terrible frustrations. A major problem I've had in this area is that the people you really want to hire are those who are not looking for a position. Those who are looking for a position are mostly not the people you want to hire. This isn't always the case but it is often the case. So it is rather tricky.

    This forum has been responsible for many great hires in the last two years, because it works as a kind of filter. I'm very pleased about this.
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