Bishops - the training they receive.
  • We often look to them for leadership.

    However, and I stand ready to be corrected if I am wrong and I hope that I am, Bishops are named and then go through a two week bishop's school and that's it?

    This, if true, could explain the lack of leadership, but that's a simple answer toa complex problem.

    It is unfair and unrealistic of us to expect any bishop to want renewal of the music unless he himself has been involved in a parish with a successful music program and absorb what it is, what it does, what it smells like and how it can positively affect the parish as a whole. Bishops are not formed by schooling but by their interaction with other priests and bishops as they go through seminary and then as an active priest.

    If Rome were to sit down and put together a plan and implement it for the renewal it would be helpful, but it is hardly a matter of discussion with the vast problems in the world right now that are more pressing.

    All that we can do is make our efforts and make what we are doing attractive to others so that growth will come from the parish level upwards and be recognized.

    We cannot blame the bishops....they are running as fast as they can to keep up already.
  • rollingrj
    Posts: 351
    "Bishops are not formed by schooling but by their interaction with other priests and bishops as they go through seminary and then as an active priest."

    Although there is some academic accumen (STD usually is a standard terminal degree for those with a mitre), you are accurate in your assessment. They are called to lead a larger flock than just a parish, requiring skills only obtained "in the trenches."

    "It is unfair and unrealistic of us to expect any bishop to want renewal of the music unless he himself has been involved in a parish with a successful music program and absorb what it is, what it does, what it smells like and how it can positively affect the parish as a whole."

    Unless they "get it" (e.g. Pope Benedict XVI, Archbishop Burke, et. al.) or their theological focus has a liturgical bent to it, this also seems to be accurate. He needs to see that ideal successfully implemented at the parochial level and probably need to seek its application in a truly pastoral way diocesan wide. While familiarity with the relevent documents are a start, this has to be experienced by him in some profound degree.

    "All that we can do is make our efforts and make what we are doing attractive to others so that growth will come from the parish level upwards and be recognized."

    That has to be the plan.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,092
    Um, a bishop has all the answers he wants. Already. So why would he think to need training?

    That's the common situation, to all appearances.
  • Um, the terminal degree is bestowed with the office, not by academic study. Correct me if I am wrong. If a bishop candidate does not have a doctorate, becoming a bishop gives him one.
  • DougS
    Posts: 793
    I don't think that's correct, Noel. The STD is an academic degree, and not all bishops have them.
  • You are absolutely correct! Thanks, the D.D. is granted automatically upon ordination. I think.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,215
    Canon law requires that bishops have an earned doctorate, but in practice, many don't; the D.D. is conferred (by whom? I don't know) on bishops who don't have one.
  • I guess that I am trying to say that we need to figure out how to support and reach our bishops rather than expect them to suddenly turn around and see us as the guys wearing the white hats.

    When I was young I loved to get a chance to play an organ, any kind at all, including Hammonds! Now that seems silly, but that's how much I loved just having a chance to play. I admired all the priests, bishops, cardinals and the pope. I may have been scared of some, but still respected them. With age we develop a different view of things and it is easy to become negative about things that once we admired.

    What can we do that brings our work to the attention of church hierarchy in a positive sense? While one view is that they are just people, in reality they are much more than that, they are priests, people who have given their lives over to a special life and in accepting higher office in the church also put themselves out as targets for being responsible for everything that goes on in the church.

    I know that we had a discussion about the music when Benedict was in the US, but really, what did he think of the music in DC and NY?

    I once substituted regularly at a parish with a priest who, along with other organ students at Curtis under McCurdy, had his organ studies interrupted by WWII. Some of them, he said, like he had given up on pursuing professional music careers as a result of this. Playing at his church was stressful because he was still a fine musician. But he never said anything negative about my playing...in fact, never mentioned it at all.

    I doubt that the Pope is distressed by poor music-making by his people though I think that he finds joy in great music making.

    Our Bishops are so much more than music critics, I'm pretty sure that they don't even notice the music at Mass unless something goes drastically awry.

    Novenas for our bishops would not hurt.
  • "Novenas for our bishops would not hurt." Great idea. As a suggestion, we could add (or continue) daily prayers for our bishops, similar to the prayers for the Pope's intentions at the end of the daily rosary.

    I've also noticed in recent years my parish prays regularly for vocations to the "priesthood, diaconate, and religious life," and wondered why don't we pray for vocations to the episcopate? Realizing that episcopal vocations happen by a different mechanism than the others, namely papal appointment, it's still something to pray for. We can pray for both our current and future bishops.
  • Great idea!
  • marymezzomarymezzo
    Posts: 236
    If anyone is interested, check out Rosary for the Bishop
  • BachLover2BachLover2
    Posts: 330
    yes, we need to pray for our bishops
  • It would certainly help to have bishops on board with the implementation of sacred musical programs.

    I do believe however, this could be a case of concern that puts the cart before the horse. Bishops are not our immediate employers, our pastors are. Bishops don't even sign our paychecks. Bishops don't hire and fire music directors (though they certainly have the power) so the more pressing concern should be, "how do we get our pastors on board with what the Church is asking of us?"

    I believe the first area we all have to sober ourselves up in is that we cannot implement the Benedictine (the current pope)Marshall Plan with a 1 year plan or a two year plan. This is an agenda that is going to have to be on the 4 year plan and the 12 year plan and the 20 year plan. You belong to a Church (at least in America) that has been shaken and stirred and tugged and pulled through all kinds of outliers in an otherwise stable system. I don't believe I need to give examples to prove my point. Therefore, we cannot mimic the tuggers, the stirrers, and the shakers. It is not safe for the faithful and it is not safe for our own necks. The solution is to slowly implement reparative elements to the liturgy that have been destroyed (by those who misinterpreted it, not the Church proper) and to make sure that you catechize the ENTIRE congregation every step of the way. That doesn't mean to simply sing the communio before Mass, that means to really get out into the trenches and teach our traditions and explain their purposes. I guarantee that you will encounter little resistance if you follow this method unless, of course, you have found yourself employed at St. Jerry Garcia Catholic Church in Hippyville, USA (and that's your own fault for responding to their ad for worship minister).

    Priority number two is to not be a whiner. Be grateful that you are making progress. Slow and steady pace wins the race and keeps you employed.

    Priority number three is to make such small waves that they do not ever make it to the ears of the diocesan offices. That doesn't mean you should hide what you are doing or you shouldn't advertise events or music, etc. It simply means that when you blip on the bishop's radar, he should see a friendly and not a bogey.

    Bogeys include:
    -Those that cause limitless phone calls of complaints.
    -Those that do not understand what it means to be truly pastoral when implementing the Benedictine Marshall Plan.
    -Those who fail to be obedient.
    -Those who immediately switch elements without explanation or a fair amount of warning/lead time.
    -Those who fail to master the virtue of humility.

    Friendlys include:
    -Those who are patient.
    -Those who are upfront and open about the things to come.
    -Those who lead their choirs and congregations like the Good Shepherd. You have to feed the flock and guide them beside STILL WATERS.
    -Those who are not agenda driven, which can be different than simply being motivated towards a goal.
    -Those who can implement a healthy sense of humor into their program. Remember, we aren't engaged in war with the hippies, we just want them to see and sing things the way the Church is asking us to do them.
    -Those who don't cause the pastor grief. If you don't know if you are or aren't causing the pastor grief, ask him.
    -Those who don't cause the bishop grief.
    -Those who don't cause the bishop's mailbox to stay full of complaint letters.
    -Someone not afraid to let On Turkey's Wings be sung from time to time(in other words, be someone who is flexible, you don't have to sing the blasted song, just beat the 4 pattern). Let's face it, a significant number of people like the new stuff. For instance, many of the newer songs are Eucharistic. If you have been enslaved at your parish to Bustin' Bread from the OCP, there aren't that many Eucharist oriented songs from the old days because the old days had sung Communios. These days there are more hymns in that department. It is your responsibility to make sure the choir isn't singing the heretical ones like "Look Beyond the Bread You Eat." Again, be FLEXIBLE.
    -Those who are faithful to Holy Mother Church and all of her teachings.


    These are just some of the things I've learned in my years doing what I do. By the way, I have never received a single complaint about the elements I have re-introduced to the Mass and the bishops that have presided from time to time have never spoken a word to me about them. Kudos to the good priest who taught me how to do things this way and Deo Gratias that I was provided with such a good mentor.

    Pax Christi
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,477
    Priority number three is to make such small waves that they do not ever make it to the ears of the diocesan offices


    I'm reminded of the (apocryphal) "Three Ancient Chinese Curses"
    -May you live in interesting times.
    -May you find what you are looking for.
    -May you be noticed by those in authority.
  • I never knew that I could impart a Chinese curse with my rhetoric. Awesome!
  • Joe,

    Welcome to the forum!

    I know there are those here that post that will agree with you 100% on everything you have said.
  • Thanks for the welcome!

    I just figured I would put in my two bits from my part of the world.
  • Your advice may help many in their present situations. At the same time there are those who end up working for a growing number of priests who are unwilling to permit the atrocities of recent years continue and in these cases there will be calls to the chancery about our work...if there are not calls, then we are not doing what our pastor envisions. There is so much unhappiness in the Catholic church, so many people who see everything as challenging, difficult to accept and not what they are used to, that it can be an interesting ride for all involved.

    I would say that a call to the chancery about music being sung that a parishioner does not like would be a welcome relief to those who have to field calls about all the serious things that upset people.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,092
    Amen. To which I would add: Be relatively detached from a specific incarnation of your goal, because your imagination is not necessarily that which the Holy Spirit intends. Be ready to let go. Your purpose may simply to have your work be wiped away. Follow the Little Way. When you get grandiose urges, have a spiritual director who is detached from any musical agenda to help you see where that grandiosity might be coming from.
  • Liam, I politely disagree. Pope Gregory could have taken that approach. If so, people would not say "God Bless You" when you sneeze.
  • Having a spiritual director is something I overlooked. That's because I think that every Catholic should have a spiritual director whether in a choir or not. It will save your soul. I was a mess until I started going to spiritual direction. I don't think that director has to be detached from the movement though, as both of my SDs have been very involved in the Marshall Plan.

    Liam, you are right on when it comes to being detached from a specific incarnation of your goal because of the Holy Spirit's true intentions. Take the work of St. Ignatius of Loyola. His intention was to help souls and be a spiritual master, which is what he did. However, his order's charism happily fell (perhaps by accident/providence) into education, which is not exactly what we could attribute to Ignatius's intentions for his order.

    Frogman, objectively speaking, your point is taken well. Nevertheless, the circumstances we work under (like how the Church has been tugged and shaken) compell me to the belief that the Little Way as Liam mentions is the best way for all involved. It is certainly a path that is welcome in Mother Church. What's the old saying that they claim is taught in seminary?..."don't change anything your first 1,2,3? years." Many people can really get upset with a priest if he comes into a parish and changes everything before they even get to know him, so what makes us think we can act differently?
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,978
    "Many people can really get upset with a priest if he comes into a parish and changes everything before they even get to know him, so what makes us think we can act differently?"

    You can't act differently. If a musician goes into a parish, acts as if he alone knows the "right way," and can not or will not work with people where they are at the moment, then disaster will be the result. Some musicians can't seem to take a longer range view and be patient and humble, letting the Holy Spirit guide and direct. None of us have, or will have, all the answers. That "Little Way" is tried and true, and it wins out in the end every time.
  • Jeffrey TuckerJeffrey Tucker
    Posts: 3,624
    I recall all too well when a musician did that in our parish, arrived one day and announced all new Mass assignments, music, rules, rehearsal times. The effects were amazing. She might as well have abolished the entire program. The parish was split in 6 different directions. The place fell apart. Within one year, she was cantoring all Masses by herself. She eventually left without announcement. The effects of this are still with us, 10 years later.
  • Re: Phone calls

    I would say that "a" phone call wouldn't make much of a difference at the chancery, which is why I mentioned that the problem begins when there are limitless phone calls.

    I can guarantee you that nobody at the chancery wants to field any complaints. It's implicit in their job by virtue of the office they work in that they have to do this, but complaints are never welcome. Remember the principle of subsidiarity, let the lowest line of authority handle the situation. If the congregation/choir has a choir director who has built trust and healthy relationships (again, this is back to my bit on working in the trenches), then they will address their concerns on the choir director's level.

    And now ladies and gentleman, I wax anecdotal regarding trench work:

    I recall a time that I had a complaint addressed to me in a nice way at the potluck after Mass. The person did not even know I was the choir director and I had never met said person. The person said "I wish we would sing more songs like the one's I used to sing in school, for example, X." It just so happened that we sang that song that day. My answer was this: "That is a good song, nothing wrong theologically. However, did you hear us rehearsing it before Mass? It took the choir 15 minutes to get the rhythms in the verses right. We had it right at rehearsal earlier in the week, but they couldn't get it this morning. Regrettably, I simply don't have the time to teach jazz rhythm to my rhythmically challenged choir right before Mass. We are working on improving in that area."


    The person truly understood why we didn't sing it. I believe that jazz rhythms and mushy melodies have little place in our liturgical tradition. I could have pitched my opinion to the whiner, rather, I pointed out the difficulties and chalked it up to taking up too much time. That was just as true as my distaste for jazz Mass and I didn't have to sound elite in my musical tastes. If the person would ever ask me what my tastes are, the answer would be Missa Angelis, but they don't ask and I don't tell.
  • Jeffrey,

    That is very true. Being in an area where people were instructed improperly, I know there is truth to your story of the choir person's impact on the parish. We are having to root out 30 and 40 year old weeds and replanting the new ones that they have created. A hellbent leader can make waves that last for what seems an eternity.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,978
    In this case, don't ask, don't tell, works rather well, doesn't it? ;-) Why provoke a confrontation when nothing can be gained from it. I have told some of my friends that we have difficulty, at times, implementing the instructions given us in scripture. We have the "gentle as doves" part down rather well. However, we still need some work on the "wise as serpents" part.