Organ Accompaniments • What did we agree?
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    I know that some folks will take offense to this, but I'd like to suggest that organ accompaniments CAN be done well, and Flor Peeters has given us the model.

    HERE'S A WEBSITE that might serve as a point of departure for discussion, and it gives DOCUMENTATION there (bottom right) for a modern-day Gregorian modal accompaniment 'method.' These, at one time, were in vogue. I own about 30 fin de siècle books by different authors, and have photocopies of perhaps 35 more.



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  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,996
    Well, let them take offense! Organ accompaniments have been used in the Church for what, a thousand years now? In heaven, I am sure there will be a purist who says, "What's with all this singing? It wasn't done like this before the great flood!"
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    People who don't want organ accomp or don't need it,
    simply don't use it. People might have a strong opinion, but I don't believe people take offense in this forum.
    In a parish where the congregation sing Gloria, I play organ with melody line, because they are not ready to take just chords. But if the schola and choir is ready to sing without organ melody line, i think organ supporting the singing softly witout doubling the melody line sound better. (In music school, organ majors seemed to learn hymn playing and make it very interesting musically. Do they teach chant accompaniment? I'm not an organ major, so curious to know.)
  • Paul F. Ford
    Posts: 864
    Jeff,

    I haven't even prayed morning prayer yet, but I am already swept up in the beauty of your accompaniments. Thank you so much.

    Paul
  • redsox1
    Posts: 217
    Does it really need to be either/or and not both? While I certainly love the discipline and aesthetic of unaccompanied chant, think of the beautiful harmonizations of chant from not only the organ repertoire, but also the choral repertoire. While I am certainly a fan of Flor Peeters, as well as Paul Benoit, who could imagine the repertoire without the Durufle motets, the Requiem, as well as the lesser-known Messe Cum Jubilo, and of course, his Prelude, Adagio, and Choral Variations on Veni Creator for the organ? These works continue to inspire. Accompanied chant is just fine with me!
  • DougS
    Posts: 793
    This was not just in vogue but common practice throughout much of the nineteenth century--in RC and Episcopal churches.
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    Hmmm, I thought this thread was about how to make the chant accompaniment beautiful, with a good example that Jeff O. showed, not about whether we should use it or not, because there are times you need, and there are times you don't. (I probably missed something.)
    I love organ accomp. of Fontgobault. I think the manner of the organist in excuting the accompaniment of chant makes a lot different, even with the same music.
  • incantuincantu
    Posts: 989
    I would like to hear an example with a melismatic chant proper.
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,424
    I am one of those purists. However, I shant burden anyone here about what I would consider 'pure chant performance' - simply because no such thing exists out of reference to a given one or two year time period within any past era. As for accompanied chant? Well, I rather think that any of the current styles of organ accompaniment have no more than a two hundred-or-so year history. Other things were done with chant and to chant for as long as there has been chant. Personally, I find organ-accompanied chant boring and lifeless. But I cannot say that no one should practice it. As with most things of questionable aesthesis, whether they are or are not pure or have been done for 100 years or 500 is not really a deciding criterion. People do it because they like it. And if they like it a (not necessarily accurate) rationale will materialise - meaning, among other things, 300 people Can sing chant in tune and flowingly without an organ.
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    Friends,

    Thank you very much for your kind and thoughtful comments!
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    Jeff O, we appreciate all your hard work, which you share with us so generously. (I don't know how many hours you have in your day :-)
    Your organ accompaniments are beautiful, and I'm sure there are many people who will use them (including me. Certainly there are times I need them.)

    Thank you and Blessings,
    Mia
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    I would like to hear an example with a melismatic chant proper.


    These can be quite beautiful. I hope to create some examples at some point. Obviously, some discretion is needed in choosing exemplary models.

    In the meantime, here's a piece that was recorded by a friend of mine (former FSSP priest, now a monk at Clear Creek)
    • melismatic accompanied chant
    (the organist is P. Petrus Eder, OSB, from Austria)

    ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- -----

    • a non-melismatic excerpt, accompanied by the same, brilliant organist (P. Petrus Eder, OSB)

    ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- -----

    A Website that links to documentation on chant accompaniments (lower right hand corner)

    Also in the documentation, I try to explain that "not all chants were created equal" --- in other words, some harmonizations work really well for such-and-such a chant (composed in such-and-such a century and in such-and-such a mode), but not AT ALL for this other chant (composed many centuries earlier according different compositional principles and in such-and-such a mode).
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,996
    "Also in the documentation, I try to explain that "not all chants were created equal""

    So very true! Just because something is old, or even because it's chant, doesn't make it beautiful. I have heard some glorious chant over the years. Also, some that was wretched.
  • bgeorge77
    Posts: 190
    "Jeff O, we appreciate all your hard work, which you share with us so generously. (I don't know how many hours you have in your day :-)"

    There is no 'Jeff O'... the entity you call Jeff O is actually 15 starving music PhD candidates locked in a U-Store-It somewhere outside Corpus Christi, Texas. They are worked mercilessly. I know. I've seen it.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    "I have heard some glorious chant over the years. Also, some that was wretched."

    It would be helpful for you to list some examples of wretched chant so that we might understand your viewpoint. Thanks.
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    @bgeorge77: our "grad students" get along well with yours, Ben. :-D
  • incantuincantu
    Posts: 989
    Jeff, thanks for the Tu es Petrus. I think the chanters and the organ are very much together, without being unnecessarily rigid in their rhythm (which is one of the dangers of accompanied chant). You really have to know the music to be able to do that successfully, but I can't argue with the success of this example. There's a big difference between using accompaniment as a crutch for poor singing and adding it as a genuine artistic choice. That is to say, if you cannot chant well without accompaniment, you probably won't chant well with it.

    This year, we used an organ drone for the communion chant each week during the Easter season (except for maybe one that modulates, iirc) as a way to set it apart from what we do the rest of the year. It was also a great exercise in intonation as well as a useful example of modality.
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    Re: organ accompaniment, the Rev. Dom Dominicus Johner says: "The rector ecclesiae, as a rule the parish priest, must decide as to the necessity. In such cases, a skilled organist is certainly of great service to weak and unpracticed singers."

    Can you imagine a singer approaching the Rector, saying, "Father, I am a weak and unpracticed singer. Can I please have organ accompaniment?"
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    Jeffrey Tucker has kindly posted: THIS ARTICLE ON GREGORIAN CHANT ACCOMPANIMENT on Chant Café
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