Gloria at a Ferial Mass?
  • Jeffrey TuckerJeffrey Tucker
    Posts: 3,624
    The GIRM (#53) says that the Gloria "is sung or said on Sundays outside the Seasons of Advent and Lent, on solemnities and feasts,
    and at special celebrations of a more solemn character."

    So I gather from this that the Gloria COULD be sung at a weekday Mass provided it is a special occasion. Right?
  • JDE
    Posts: 588
    Yes, that's true. It's down to pastoral reasons, ultimately; but our bishop always sends a letter in advance of a Confirmation visit instructing that there be no Gloria "for this votive Mass."

    My guess: he wants to save those extra 150 seconds for his homily.
  • Jeffrey,

    Yes, that's right. I found this out in connection with the Chair of St. Peter Mass last month. The Gloria is even sung during Lent on feasts with high enough rank.
  • john m
    Posts: 136
    Yes, the Gloria is sung on solemnities that fall on weekdays, even during Advent and Lent.

    St. Joseph and St. Patrick are both titular saints of my parish. As their feasts fall during Holy Week this year, St. Joseph is transferred by the Holy See to March 15. St. Patrick has been transferred by the bishop for our parish to March 14. Why these feasts are being moved back into Lent rather than forward into Easter season I do not know. Be that as it may, we will be observing both days as solemnities, including the singing of the Gloria.
  • Steve CollinsSteve Collins
    Posts: 1,021
    John M.
    Moving Sts. Patrick and Joseph back rather than forward only makes sense. These are celebrated mid-March by Irish, Italian/Sicilian, and sometimes German folks. All saints' days falling within both Holy Week and Easter Week must be transferred. Hence Annunciation, which is also widely used as a Patronal Feast, will be celebrated March 31 the next day after Low Sunday.
  • Our bishop in Providence has moved St. Patrick to Friday 3/14 as well, and (IIRC) is offering dispensation from the no-meat requirement for those who celebrate St. Patrick on that day.
  • The question is then, are the celebrations of St Patrick and St Joseph ranked high enough to get the Gloria during a ferial Mass. At eponymous churches, yes, but at others?
  • john m
    Posts: 136
    My questioning of the feasts being moved backward into Lent is due to the fact that when a feast is transferred it is, as a rule, moved forward in the calendar, not back. As Ss Joseph and Patrick can't be placed during the octave of Easter, if moved forward they would have to be in the following week. Perhaps the reasoning was to keep them in March even if that means departing from the usual norms.

    The Feast of St. Patrick does not have a Gloria apart from eponymous parishes. The Solemnity of St. Joseph does.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,956
    I look at the Ordo which indicates whether or not to use the Gloria on a particular day. However, I have found that asking the good Monsignor (who signs my check) if he wants a Gloria to be sung is always a fool-proof solution. ;-)
  • David AndrewDavid Andrew
    Posts: 1,204
    Just a small point: S Patrick appears on the General Roman Calendar as a commemoration, not an obligatory memorial, let alone a feast, with the exception of titular churches or cathedrals. With respect to them, I can certainly understand the importance of moving the day of observance, and in those cases the singing of the Gloria would be proper and consistent with the concept of making the celebration more "solemn" (in a non-progressive solemnity way. I always become skeptical when people want to add something like the Gloria to make the celebration more "special." It seems like a liturgical abuse if it's done outside the norms set forth in the documents). But to my knowledge, the Gloria isn't sung for commemorations or memorials (optional or obligatory), only for certain feasts and all solemnities.

    But those instances aside, what is the difference between S Patrick and, say, S Cyril of Jerusalem whose commemoration is the very next day, March 18? Why don't we get excited about poor Cyril? Why none of these questions about moving his day or singing the Gloria at Mass?

    I'm asking a rhetorical question, obviously. The nexus between cultural/societal influence and realities regarding disciplines and observances of the Faith is what we're dealing with here. The question I'm asking is, are the bishops moving the observance of S Patrick's Day out of necessity for the good of the spiritual life of the Faithful or as a concession to the secular markets?
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,956
    That's an excellent question but I don't have the answer. St. Patrick's Day is a huge secular event and big bucks are definitely a part of it. In my mostly non-Catholic area, even the Protestants celebrate the day.
  • john m
    Posts: 136
    David makes a good point about the Gloria not being something that is just tossed in on the "wouldn't it be nice if..." principle. It belongs in the Mass of a parish's titular feast, regardless of rank, not because it makes the day more special but because of an objective norm: for that parish that day is a solemnity, and the Gloria is proper to a solemnity. It would not be proper in the next parish over.

    I think there are a lot of factors, spiritual and secular, in the prominence of St. Patrick's Day in the public consciousness. Here in the US its popularity is due in large part to the huge numbers of Irish immigrants in the 19th century, whose descendants today cling to this aspect of their heritage, even those who have dropped the practice of their great-grandparents' Faith. As a general cultural phenomenon it seems much like St. Valentine's Day in that its secular observance is entirely divorced from its religious origin. My theory is that our bishops are simply being prudent in seeing that so vastly popular a feast, likely to be celebrated with or without the Church, at least remain visible on the Church's calendar.
  • mahrt
    Posts: 517
    We try to keep Christ in Christmas; why not try to keep St. Patrick in his day as well; in other words, if there is a significant Irish population in the parish, and if there is a tradition of celebrating St. Patrick liturgically, I should think that it would come under the rubric of greater solemnity. I would draw the line at green vestments, however.
  • Prof Mahrt, good to see you here again. As a member of the Ancient Order of Hibernians, I wholeheartedly agree. We always sponsored a votive Mass on the 17th (no green vestments). That did not preclude us from raising a glass in the saint's honor later that evening, but not too many.
  • Chris
    Posts: 80
    I'm the DOM of a predominantly Irish parish in central NJ, home to the state's largest AOH community, and although we always begin the day's festivities with a celebration of the Eucharist, we don't sing the Gloria. It was my understanding that it wasn't permitted. Saint Patrick is not the titular saint of the parish.

    IIRC, I believe that the Gloria is also called for on March 25, the Feast of the Annunciation, even when it normally occurs during Lent.
  • Even though only a commemoration in the universal Roman calendar, St Patrick's day is a solemnity (and holy day of obligation) in Ireland. Presumably they have both Gloria and Creed there. I wonder if the desire to have the Gloria stems from making it like the old country?

    On the larger question of Gloria on ferial days, what do people here generally do about weddings, typically on Saturdays? Do couples request the Gloria? Do you give it to them? What about the Creed?
  • Steve CollinsSteve Collins
    Posts: 1,021
    Michael. I am a member of AOH also. Our Parade will be downtown Saturday morning, but the St. Patrick's Mass will be Friday morning. Oh well. Now the Hibernains (our mostly Protestant brethren) will have their Parade downtown on the 17th, culminating with the Irish flag being raised above City Hall. BTW, their Parade takes a different route. Ours goes from St. Patrick's Church to the Cathedral - about 1.5 miles.

    Having an Ordo around is a very important addition to a Sacramentary and a Lectionary for Catholic musicians. It really saves a lot of discussion - at least on strictly Kalendar issues. I'm not as sure about the use of the "Gloria" at a wedding. I have been asked to include it a couple of times in an OF Mass, and I do if the priests gives his OK. I'm sure there is a more strict prohibition of it in the EF Mass rubrics. I don't believe that the Creed should ever be included at a Wedding Mass. I think the Sacrament of Matrimony being in that position between the Liturgy of the Word and of the Eucharist takes the place of the Creed.

    BTW, since the Sunday closest to St. Patrick's Day is Palm Sunday, we decided to sing "Hail Glorious St. Patrick" for the Recessional hymn this past Sunday. And we had our Men's Club dinner for the occasion last Saturday evening.
  • I think the Gloria is generally omitted for the OF nuptial Mass. It's a votive Mass, correct? The couple shouldn't be asking for it. Even for votive Masses for saints, it's generally left out. The Gloria is a special hymn reserved for Sundays and important feasts, even in the OF.