The Reformed Novus Ordo Liturgy
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    Are you and your pastor progressing in this direction?
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    Here is Noel's previous explanation on what is meant by this term, with references to the particular topic removed:

    In a discussion at school this week, we covered the main Jewish congregations: Orthodox, Conservative and Reformed as a parallel to the present Latin Rite: Extraordinary Form, Vatican II, Novus Ordo. This was after my meeting my first observant Jew in Chattanooga, TN...if you think Catholics are few and far between in the US South....the Jews are much, much fewer.

    And I complimented him that his mother would be pleased that he attends Shul. This elderly man told me that he can tell what kind of Jew he is talking with by whether they say they go to Temple, Synagogue or Shul.

    I knew that the Conservative Temple may have an organ, the Orthodox Shul and Reformed Synagogue will not. He said, "We hate it to walk into a Temple and see an organ."

    Shul's came first, then Conservative Temples and eventually those that rejected the liberal approach of the Conservative but unwilling to go all the way back to the Orthodox practices formed Reformed Congregations.

    We have three forms of the Mass, all the Mass, all different. While the Vatican II Mass welcomes music that talks all about ME, hence the great number of songs that start with "I", the Novus Ordo Mass text remains the same and can be in the vernacular...so one difference between these three Mass forms is the text of the music that is sung and played.

    The "Peace" at the EF is dignified, at a Vatican II Mass it can be a family reunion of hugging and kissing...at a Reformed Novus Ordo Mass it can once again be dignified.

    We will have the Vatican II form with us forever, but the Reformed Novus Ordo Mass could and should continue to grow. People deserve a choice.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    I found it a very interesting paradigm presentation, and certainly didn't know the history of the Jewish sects. I disagreed with the application of the principles that were made (as regards a certain spiritual), but it's overall a good delineation of what makes some Ordinary Form liturgies different.

    As for my prior experience in a Catholic church, this is the direction my boss and I moved towards. I think there are of course many variables to be considered in evaluating how the liturgy as executed by a parish should change, but overall this sums up what needs to be done.
  • Daniel Bennett PageDaniel Bennett Page
    Posts: 837
    NB: the term is 'Reform' Judaism, not 'Reformed' Judaism.
    It's actually Reform temples in which organs are most typically found.
    Any congregation called a 'temple' is part of Reform Judaism.
    Congregations/places of worship are usually called synagogues in Conservative Judaism and shuls or synagogues in Orthodox Judaism.
    The parallel to various versions of Catholic worship is weak: Orthodox Jewish liturgy looks much more like Eastern-Rite/Orthodox Christian liturgy rather than anything Latin/Roman.
    Reform worship is purposely and explicitly modeled on Protestant worship.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    It's not a parallel of liturgies, but of congregations.

    " Among those [US Jewish] households who belong to a synagogue, 38% are members of Reform synagogues, 33% Conservative, 22% Orthodox, 2% Reconstructionist, and 5% other types. "

    Thanks for the corrections!
  • JDE
    Posts: 588
    DBP,

    my experience of Reform liturgy is that it is a simplified version of the Orthodox liturgy. There is less repetition of prayers, many Hebrew prayers are said in English, etc. It is a stretch to say that it is "purpose[ful]ly and explicitly modeled on protestant worship."

    Other than that everything in your post is correct. Let me tell you, you haven't heard the Sh'ma until you've heard it drawled with a syrupy Low Country accent. But believe it or not, Charleston is the epicenter of Reform Judaism in America.
  • Daniel Bennett PageDaniel Bennett Page
    Posts: 837
    Reform Judaism originated with German Jews eager to assimilate Jewish ritual practice into the surrounding culture.
    And, so, many practices were introduced from 'moderate high church' Protestantism: organs, hymn-style singing, mixed choirs, almost exclusively English-language prayers, 'Geneva' choir gowns (for clergy and choir), Confirmation (sic), Christian-style religious education classes, and similar customs.
    There has been a return during the last 50 years or so to more traditional practices--especially the Hebrew language and forms of prayer derived from Orthodox Judaism--in Reform worship.
    As Yurodivi observed, it's much more 'high church' than would have been the case in the middle of the last century.
    This is not dissimilar to the continuous adoption of more and more liturgical customs among so-called mainstream Protestants.
    What's interesting is the simultaneous adoption of progressivist, latitudinarian positions on doctrine, church discipline, and personal morality among precisely these same groups, including Reform Judaism.
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