Here's an anecdotal argument for you, boiling down to performance music vs. participational:

As I was getting ready to tune an organ at a Catholic church in Houston one day, the receptionist was taking me to where the ladder was stored. She asked my to explain a comment by a Protestant substitute organist - to the effect that "why do you Catholics try to sing such difficult music?"

This is about the difference between traditional hymnody, and the "songs" we've been listening to for the last 30 years. Hymns contain notes that look like (from parochial school) little men climbing up and down ladders. You just sing up and down with little to moderate steps. And you keep them moving, along with the underlying text. OTOH you have these songs that include:

1) looooong short loooooooong shor looooooooong...... ad nauseum. Really! You cannot sing through to the first comma without two breaths! How can you possible sing anything understandable like that. Of course the musicians are jamming away during all those held notes.

2) Strange, leaping intervals - they only make sense in the context of the harmonies, which are often jazzy, with 7ths and 9ths. We trained musicians might remember from college that the most difficult intervals to sight-sing (the tri-tone and the minor 7th) can be easily remembered from Berstein's "West Side Story". But how does the congregation get those stretches? And how many of these songs have a compass of a 10th? The ladies can't sing that low, and the basses certainly can't sing that high.

3) Poorly edited lyrics - every verse is set to a different rhythm, even within the same melodic structure. These editors should have been fired, and gone to work as grocery stockers at the nearest Wal-Mart!

You probably cannot win an argument based on the theological content (or lack thereof) in these songs. But you might be successful in demonstrating what horrible music this really is - objectively. All this music was obviously composed in competition with other composers to see who could out-modernize the genre. It is the epitome of music that needs to be performed by a "professional" group (i.e. "rock band"), NOT for anyone to comfortably join in singing. These songs do, sometimes, leave the people with a catchy phrase or two to whistle on there way home from church - not remembering anything about the text of the song.

I don't see that this music OBJECTIVELY fulfils any aspect of "full, conscious, active participation" by the congregation.

Just some commentary, Steve. I generally agree with your points, save for the Walmart dig for unsportman-like conduct (5 yards, first down! ;-)

looooong short loooooooong shor looooooooong...... ad nauseum. Really! You cannot sing through to the first comma without two breaths! How can you possible sing anything understandable like that. Of course the musicians are jamming away during all those held notes.

I would say that James Moore's "Taste and See" is a poster child of this modem. I can't speak to the "jamming" during the 7 beat held note, but one presumes that a decent pianist/guitarist would be arpeggiating, not jamming to keep the eighth note flow moving. And it doesn't necessarily mean that congregations don't embrace and sing these types of tunes. For example, Canedo's "Fly Like a Bird" took off big time with our school kids. But, of course, their lungs are pretty healthy!
Lastly, if one notices, the Hurds, Manalos, even Bells are "retreating" back to more strophic, word per syllable songs in their latter efforts.

But how does the congregation get those stretches? And how many of these songs have a compass of a 10th? The ladies can't sing that low, and the basses certainly can't sing that high.

I think it matters if the tune in question is a cultural monolith, so to speak, like "O say can you sing..." So, despite the tessitura interval being a tenth, folks will still sing Toolan's "I am the Bread.." just as they will "All glory, laud and honor." This idea even extends over to some rhythmic issues, ie. Sand's "Sing of the Lord's Goodness" which he clearly penned as paean to Brubeck's "Take Five." Congregations can and do easity negotiate that tune. And some of the greatest hits of the 80's that have the ascending sixth or minor seventh? Well, I tend to just think that if select ones have an honest, apparent merit that they just provide congregations with an opportunity to, ummm, stretch their self-presumed boundries. You've got to admit that hymnals also have tunes that don't adhere to your "man, up and down the stairs" maxim. For every "Old 100th" you'll find an "Abbot's Leigh" or "St. Patrick's Breastplate," or heaven forbid "Ebenezar." And you want to find a congregational hard-sell, try the late, great Hillert's "This is the feast..." it ain't easy for the folks either.

These songs do, sometimes, leave the people with a catchy phrase or two to whistle on there way home from church - not remembering anything about the text of the song.

I think that's a bit facetious, and pointless as well. If some of these usual suspect tunes take up lodging in someone's head after Mass, you can't assume it does so without an association with the text, whether for good or ill. For example, a more recent tune by Janet Sullivan-Whitaker, "In Every Age," has a very anthemic refrain that most folks would recognize, if not whistle while they drive. But I seriously doubt they would do so without also remembering the text: "In every age, O God, You have been our refuge; in every age, O God, You have been our Hope."

Though I do agree with you in general terms, one thing with which I cannot concur is that the whole genre is "objectively" flawed. I believe we are obliged to examine pretty much everything we are going to "serve up" to the Faithful and the Lord subjectively. That's why I like it when JT, Mahrt, Chonak, Aristotle et al point out the specific genius lying under the "melodies" of certain Proper chants now and then. That's all for now. Have a great weekend.

I personally like Proulx for the Mass setting. However, they will be using Marty Haugen's "Mass of Creation", and the sound that they are looking for is along that vein. As far as the songs for Processional, Offertory, Recessional, etc, which will change every week, I am looking for suggestions. I am hoping to not use the Breaking Bread hymnal if at all possible.

Thanks!

Mandee

Why start with "songs" at all?

Why not sing simple homophonic propers, and do them perfectly? Richard Rice has established a working model:

http://musicasacra.com/books/simplechoralgradual.pdf

Needless to say, these are modern. They were written in the past few years.

Amanda,
Again, though we do essentially what Pes and incantu endorse out here, here's a list that I think could pass muster per your criteria, if you're an OCP parish:

Lent:
OUT INTO THE WILDERNESS B.Hurd
BEHOLD, BEFORE OUR WONDERING EYES Walker/Berberick
TRANSFIGURATION Manalo
Easter:
TWO WERE BOUND FOR EMMAUS B.Hurd
THREE DAYS (Thaxted/Ridge)
General:
AMEN: EL CUERPO DE CRISTO Schiavone
UBI CARITAS B.Hurd
COME TO ME AND DRINK B.Hurd
O GOD, YOU SEARCH ME B. Farrell
IN EVERY AGE Sullivan-Whitaker
CHRIST BEFORE US Suo-gan/Sullivan-Whitaker
WE WALK BY FAITH plainsong/Bridge
LAUDATE, LAUDATE DOMINUM C.Walker
ALL GOOD GIFTS Keil
CANTICLE OF ZACHARY Joncas
THE LORD IS MY LIGHT C.Walker
THERE IS NOTHING TOLD Willcock

To add to Charles' list...

Unless a Grain of Wheat (Farrell)
Create in Me (Psalm 51, Kendzia)
In the Presence of God (Psalm 116, Kendzia)
Lead Me, Lord (Becker)
Send, O God, Your Holy Spirit (B Moore)
Ave Maria (Kantor)
Be With Me, Lord (Psalm 91, Joncas)
Glory in the Cross (Schutte)

I like Peloquin, and In Memory of You, Faith Hope & Love, and A Simple Command are all pretty easy to implement (although that is probably not "modern" enough).

I especially echo Charles' suggestions of Ubi Caritas (Hurd) and The Lord is My Light (Walker). Psalm-based pieces (such as the latter) are always a safer bet.

I like the title of this thread, "modernization." What does it mean, really?

Biggest problem Mass of Creation for me is the altered text of the Ordinary of the Mass. If a composer can't use the text that is given, the setting is a failure IMO.

I second the importance of singing texts from Sacred Scripture in general, and the Psalms in specific. If you can fight that battle, you can really see where things lie. Some people will be revealed as well-intentioned, whatever their personal preferences, while others will reveal themselves to be "me, me, me" or "we, we, we" types who are only interested in the glorification of the "community" (or their vision of it) at the expense of the Liturgy and the Church's teachings surrounding it.

Over time, the people in group one, whom are more or less fertile ground, may be more open to traditional forms. It is one of those things where, assuming we have done our job competently, we have to trust the Holy Spirit to work in their heart and intellect for good.

Also, from my experience, restricting oneself to texts which are from Scripture or at least good paraphrases thereof will show that you are not interested in pushing a personal agenda, but rather in presenting the timeless teaching of the Church in an attractive fashion. When they start to see that, then hopefully you can advance them further on Christian aesthetics and good taste...and so on. Bon chance!

I think the proper term is "idiom" but we understand. Sometimes, this is the best way to go to avoid problems. I think the prevailing thought of having the same music at every Mass is that it unites the parish. I'm sorry, but at most parishes, the 9:30 folks almost never meet the 11:00, no matter how much you try to unify them. Perhaps this is why it seems that the protestants seem to all know each other at a given church. There's only one service on Sunday.

I think Frogman's idea of Taize is a good one. Easily learned, and lend themselves to using a variety of instruments to enhance the hymns, while not needing a high degree of skill.
Donna

Fauxbourdon settings that come with guitar, flute, clarinet, trumpet, keyboard parts, set in a rhythmic pattern with alternate verses for a choir to sing in between utterances OR over the repetition of the fauxbourdon would be very welcome....

It's not the music that makes it modern, but the rhythm and trappings of "modern" instrumentation.

The operative word is: Pseudo-Pop.

LOL Michael, I'm with you. We've done a few Taize services in the past, and the mind wandersssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssszzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Donna

When preparing … not planning the music or the Mass, I turn to the first texts prescribed for the liturgy, the Introit. It is often the best stepping stone. Then I look at the offertory chant and the communion antiphon. If per chance the readings are way off base from them, then I will use something general for an entrance and always a hymn at communion that is Eucharistic in nature – no exceptions. I have found, however, that there is a connection at least seasonally with these chants texts.


Try to get the “prep team” to look at all the texts of the Mass and not just the readings, but all the sacred scriptures throughout the Mass – even the Eucharistic prayers. It is a real eye opener for some. I once read or heard that these chants, (Introit, offertory, communion, etc.) are not be prayed in isolation from one another or even from one Mass to the next, but as a continuum from one week to the next, from season to season, etc. It really makes sense then. This can be a wonderful time to catechize the staff, clergy and the people. It should help them to look beyond the “present” prayer (self) to a more “cosmic” (divine) liturgy. Pope Benedict XVI and others often couch their talks in terms like this. Otherwise, the approach of picking favorite songs makes sense. It would then, also make sense, to pick and choose the readings and ignore the liturgical calendar. It may be great to celebrate Easter all year, but not good for us. We need Lent, Advent, Ordinary Time, etc. It becomes about us and not a celebration of true worship of the Triune God.

If you use this approach, even if you must choose “hymns” or “songs”, then I think you will have a different take on how to approach preparing the Mass. It seems to stop the folks who see the Mass as a place to showcase their favorite songs, priest, lector, etc.

The three-fold judgment of liturgical, musical and pastoral is not specific enough in my opinion. Liturgically, it must make absolute sense in what we are doing, musically (that really is the realm of those educated in the musical arts and know what the performing group can do – assembly in particular, but don’t dumb it down, make them stretch a little bit at a time.) and then the pastoral judgment. This one often gets veto power over the other two. WRONG. Pastoral judgment should be used in extreme cases. We don’t usually have too many of those unless we are constantly facing emergencies at Mass! Then, I think there is a different problem all together.

As far as musical styles, it’s a shame that this is even a question, but it is. Always the best should be used in worship. Cheap and trite elements of the Mass are to be discouraged. Someone has to be the decider. Since the pastor and or parish have “called” the music director (choir director, organist or whoever) to direct the music, then you are their expert. But I caution that even the expert must gain the trust of the pastor, staff and people before removing what is familiar and what is known, but it can be done. On the other hand, if the director of music is seen as simply a consultant or worse the person who makes the music happen, then there needs to be an adjustment of expectations from the pastor, staff, congregation and certainly if that is what you feel “called” to do and you need to agree to it. In some parishes there seems to be “many experts” in the so called liturgical kitchen and in some cases who stocks the music pantry. It is akin to working in a cafeteria. God help us all, when we get to pick and choose and do not trust the Chef in charge.

bumping. I realize that it's been two years (the time really has flown) but I was hoping for a little more input on "acceptable" modern songs. I feel I've stretched the favorites a bit thin of late.

"Biggest problem Mass of Creation for me is the altered text of the Ordinary of the Mass. If a composer can't use the text that is given, the setting is a failure IMO."

The 2010 revision fixed that. It's still tiresome, but the alterations to the Alleluia and Lamb of God have been fixed.

ryand

welcome to the storrington gloria

the MOC "upgrade"?

my choir commented that in places it sounds like little mermaid

not hopeful for the composer and his legacy