Angelus: Longer Format? With music?
  • bgeorge77
    Posts: 190
    My school is considering adding in about 15 minutes a day before lunch to say the Angelus.

    Seeing as how it doesn't take that long to say an Angelus, is there a longer form? A sung form?

    Perhaps: Angelus plus Sext of the Little Office of the Blessed Virgin Mary?

    Or a hymn too? I don't know, does anyone have any opinion or experience with this? It is my hope that they will be chanting the Ave Maria.

    Any historical info anyone can give on a sung Angelus would be great!

    Though this is going to be for pretty small kids (1st-5th grade) I think I can get away with having it in mostly Latin, the Aves in particular. English Gregorian would be good too, for the other parts.

    Sorry for the jumbled nature of this post, but I am hoping someone will get the gist of what I'm looking for here.
  • Steve CollinsSteve Collins
    Posts: 1,022
    You'll have to wing it on the V/R/Collect. But here is a version (I believe from High-Church Anglican sources):
    Angelus-Harmony.pdf
    79K
  • Steve CollinsSteve Collins
    Posts: 1,022
    And, if you are using a bell or chime, try a gong at the the beginning of each V/R, and the Ave Maria. That gives you nine gongs, with space in between. Then maybe peal away during the Collect.
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    Ben, have you considered this?
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  • Carlos Foggin
    Posts: 23
    The one Jeff is recommending is the one sung daily before mass at our Parish School. We start at 5 to noon and have oodles of time left over. In fact, it's the junior boys choir's favourite song to sing if they get to pick.
  • bgeorge77
    Posts: 190
    Excellent! I am trying to think if it would sound good with the mode I Ave instead of the one indicated...

    Is there a mode 4 Ave?

    It seems kind of strange to me that there's not more Gregorian settings of the Ave Maria.
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    my high school students LOVED singing that Angelus, and begged to sing it over and over, year after year . . . (After they spent the first three months complaining about it, that is) . . . I guess with teens, if they say they hate it, that's a sure sign they love it.
  • Pes
    Posts: 623
    The Angelus is usually a simple fast thing, isn't it, hence the recto tono and minimalist settings. I like Dom Charpentier's Mode 4 setting very much.

    New modal settings are of course possible. Here's a new setting of the versicles and responses in Mode 5, with a Gregorian Ave in Mode 1. FWIW. I like modal mixture and the contrast. Some have told me it's ungainly, but I don't know. Comments, criticism welcome.

    image

    bgeorge, yes, I composed the V/R melodies.
  • bgeorge77
    Posts: 190
    Hey Pes,

    This forum doesn't seem to play well with zips. Or anything really. Try to post your PDF elsewhere and then provide a link to it. Looking forward to seeing it. It's composed by you, yes?
  • Pes
    Posts: 623
    Ok, bgeorge, thanks for the tip. I edited the post above.
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    Pes, i find your version very beautiful. I took the liberty of posting it HERE, in case people have issues with that third-party download. Let me know if this is a problem.
  • Pes
    Posts: 623
    Thank you Jeff, you are too kind. There's no problem posting it at Lalemant or anywhere else. My own criticism is that the melody of "promissionibus Christi" doesn't quite do, and I know why, but I finally had to stop fiddling with it. If anyone wants to fiddle further, I could post the Meinrad/.doc source, but these things are simple enough. It might be fun just to create V/R settings in each mode and post them.
  • JonathanKKJonathanKK
    Posts: 542
    I have just made a booklet containing the Angelus (Charpentier), Regina Caeli, and grace before and after meals.
    A Blog post with mp3's can be found here:
    http://liberreader.wordpress.com/2012/01/16/booklet-angelus-regina-caeli-grace-before-after-meals/
    The Angelus Booklet. Online release version..pdf
    3M
    Thanked by 1IanW
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    Biebl Ave Maria if you're feeling like "doing it up"!
    Thanked by 1canadash
  • Matty
    Posts: 25
    I have heard Steve's version of the Angelus at the Holy Name Church in Manchester. I wonder where it comes from? (I was told it was an Anglican setting.)
  • Matty
    Posts: 25
    Does anyone know where this setting comes from?
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,501
    I was wondering if anyone had the final verse "Pray for us O Holy Mother of God, that we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ" as well as a chant for the "Pour Forth" prayer (as my children like to call it.)
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Wouldn't they be sung to a simple dialog and collect tone, respectively?
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Bgeorge,

    I have written (and had published) a setting of the Angelus. It uses solo singers for the Versicle/Response, and 4-parts for the Ave Maria. The final prayer contains both.

    If you're interested, it's available from canticaNOVA
    Thanked by 1canadash
  • IanWIanW
    Posts: 762
    Here's a version of the traditional Anglo-Catholic Angelus setting we sang at a recent residential music week. I have head it said the original was put together by an organist of Pusey House, an Anglican religious institution in Oxford. I have never seen a printed original; only photocopies of hand-written manuscripts, passed between organists.

    I do like to bump an old thread.
    Angelus_v02b.pdf
    54K
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  • RoborgelmeisterRoborgelmeister
    Posts: 174
    Ugh. The Lord is with THEE. Should be, The Lord is WITH thee. Accent on the wrong syLABble.
  • smt
    Posts: 62
    Not a English native speaker... Why?? Why should a preposition get more emphasis than our Lady?

    Reminds me of the doxology at the end of the canon in the Novus Ordo. Most priests put the emphasis on "THROUGH him, WITH him and IN him" (at least in German) whereas I think it should be "through HIM, with HIM and in HIM"
  • IanWIanW
    Posts: 762
    I didn't compose the melodic setting (I merely typeset it and provided 4-part harmony for the responses), but I believe I understand its rationale. The melody of the responses is derived from Anglican chant, which (like Gregorian psalm tones) provides a single melody for many verses, each with their own particular stress patterns. How well that works depends on how it's sung. If done mechanically or carelessly with heavy accents, it can sound odd. However, English phrases typically have shades of accent, and allow for alternative relative stresses. The chant should be prepared with sensitivity to this.

    Here are some possibilities for the phrase in question: 'the Lord is WITH thee', 'the LORD is WITH thee', 'the Lord is with THEE', 'the LORD is with THEE' (note there are actually more options when one considers the relative strength of double stresses). Each of these conveys a different shade of meaning, and each works when spoken, assuming you don't interpret the capitals as a heavy stress.

    This would have been assumed by the Anglican organist at Pusey House. It might not be so obvious to those whose main experience is is with Latin chant, or through-composed settings.
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  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,798
    Reminds me somehow of the Richard III Ward: "My kingdom for _A_ horse?"
    Thanked by 2IanW Roborgelmeister
  • monasteryliturgistmonasteryliturgist
    Posts: 306
    https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/uploads/FileUpload/65/fec416363c1451ef1d382c1f0b5d42.pdf
    Thanked by 3CHGiffen Bri IanW
  • IanWIanW
    Posts: 762
    @Richard Mix: that's exactly my point about strange accent (put in a far funnier way than I could manage).
    Thanked by 1Roborgelmeister
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