Anyone know the Tune...and the arranger?
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
  • IanWIanW
    Posts: 756
    Noel,

    The words are by Cardinal Wiseman and the tune by Fr. Charles Cox. There's a four-part version at No. 139 of the 1912 Westminster Hymnal you can download here. You will also see there the original final verse, which doesn't get printed these days. It is an example of the way contemporary hymn lyrics can date:

    For like the sparks of unseen fire,
    That speak along the magic wire,
    From home to home, from heart to heart,
    These words of countless children dart :
    " God bless our Pope," &c.

    Msgr. Phillip Whitmore touches on the hymn and its background in this Vatican Radio broadcast.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    Many thanks.
  • Joseph Mansfield
    Posts: 113
    A spine-tingling combination of fantastic organ, voice, and text. Thank you so much for posting it.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    Yes, Joseph, at first it may seem a bit outdated, but then you get to the final verse and suddenly, like sunshine breaking through clouds, you hear exactly why today's Catholics...and many Protestants...do not sing. A stunning lack of creative hymnplaying has taken over, partially due to the total lack of instruction available to organists, even on the university level,

    In my mind I can hear arrangements like these flowing off of Francis' pen.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    I am not blaming Catholic organists. Many, if not most of them, are recruited out of the pews and only know what they have heard. Mediocrity breeds mediocrity.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    IanW, any idea where this recording was made (there are other hymns from the recording on Youtube) and if these arrangements were published?
  • IanWIanW
    Posts: 756
    Noel,

    'fraid not. I would hazard a guess that it was made in a Catholic school chapel, and I think I detect a mix of young mens', boys' and girls' voices in the recording, though lossy encoding and cheap speakers might be playing tricks with my ears.

    It would be good to know. The final verse (complete with key-shift) is magnificent!
  • IanWIanW
    Posts: 756
    It would make a good transcription exercise!
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    Of course, organist skills have been wasting away with the popular hymnals as well.
  • Maureen
    Posts: 675
    Re: dated wording

    Can't everyone just assume we're talking about fiber optic lines and the Internet?
  • IanWIanW
    Posts: 756
    Maureen: ha!
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    I feel that dated wording is valuable, a backward link for people to puzzle over and then understand that there is more to what the Church is about then just today.
  • Erik P
    Posts: 152
    .
    Full in the panting heart of rome.pdf
    33K
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    emp, thanks, nice job.

    I wonder how much our practice of putting the words between the staves affects our choirs abilities?

    Anglican chant requires memorization, even by the organist, for mastery.
  • IanWIanW
    Posts: 756
    emp1211,

    The martinet in me says that having the words at the bottom of the page or on the next one is good for people's sight-reading ability. It improves their look-ahead no end.

    On the other hand, you solution will help avoid those ocassions when music and/or words go strangely adrift.
  • Erik P
    Posts: 152
    .
  • lorganiste
    Posts: 14
    Ian suggests the choir of a catholic chapel. Perhaps Westminster Cathedral Choir in London - it's the only Roman Catholic Choir that I could imagine sounding like that - certainly none in the United States.

    Excellence in hymn accompaniment is not an option in the RCC, if we are going to use hymnody of this sort (strophic). Any organist can properly accompany these hymns - it takes a lot of work, but you don't have to go to college at a MSM level to learn this skill. There are ample musicians around for at least imitating their art in the beginning; then making it your own. But it takes hard work. There is more to playing hymns on the organ than there will ever be using four chords on the guitar and using a capo for transposition.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    Any organist can, but there are few Catholic organists that can. Many are so badly hampered by inferior organs...pipe organs that are tonally limited, purchased because of the school of thinking that "a few pipes are better than any electronic" especially when not enough funds are available for a pipe builder to have a chance of creating an organ that will lead a congregation much less support it in song.

    Qualified Catholic organists have to consider playing Eagles Wings for peanuts, or being gainfully employed playing music THAT WAS WRITTEN FOR THE ORGAN TO ACCOMPANY SINGING and making real money.
  • lorganiste
    Posts: 14
    I agree, frogman. Many of our mediocre organists refuse to do more than the geetaristas - the simplest easiest way to do something. That's why I mentioned that it takes a lot of work. I've been replaced by mommies whose husbands owned a business or had great jobs, so the mommy could play hymns (read: melody on the right hand and a chord or two on the bottom keyboard.....). Save the parish money. So much for wonderful music in any parish.
  • IanWIanW
    Posts: 756
    lorganiste,

    I meant a school chapel, because I think I hear young mens' voices, and lots of them. There is a small number of Catholic Schools in England that could manage this sound, and which have chapel and organ to go with it. Of course, I could be entirely wrong - it's difficult to tell just from listening, especially given the technology. That said, on listening again through slightly better speakers I now believe the top part is sung by boys alone.
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