frustrating LifeTeen content
  • Mark M.Mark M.
    Posts: 632
    I was snooping around the LifeTeen website the other day, and I stumbled upon a "sample liturgy guide" document with some frustrating and self-contradictory content.

    This apparently was for the Solemnity of the Holy Trinity in 2006. Emphases in boldface below are mine.

    ST. JOHN VIANNEY'S VISION

    QUICK TIPS FOR PRIESTS

    The celebration of the Holy Trinity is the celebration of the deepest mystery of our faith. Mystery is often an overused word. We use the term to refer to everything that we do not comprehend from the deep knowledge of God to the way that the dryer gobbles up socks.

    In the days before the Vatican Council, the Church was so concerned that mystery be preserved that it cloaked the mysteries Jesus revealed to us. When man-made mysteries were eliminated by the Liturgical reforms of the Second Vatican Council, many people still complain that the mystery was being eliminated. This is incorrect. The mystery is more intense than ever because it is directly in front of us.

    Human beings need mystery. We need to be aware of that which is mysterious in life.
    Husbands and wives, who are truly in a sacrificial love, unite themselves in the mystery of each other. They have been ushered into the intimacy of the person whom they love even though it is impossible to describe the essence of their husband or wife. This is the mystery of true love that you know experientially and that I can only contemplate.

    In the Holy Trinity, God shares His deep mystery with us. The sharing is not in the recitation of the dogma. Dogmas are dependent on the language and concepts of the people who frame them. The true mystery of the Holy Trinity must be found not only in dogma, but also in our experiencing the intimate life of God. We can experience the mystery of God’s life within us, the life of the Holy Trinity we received at our Baptism, but we must quiet ourselves down and expose ourselves to His presence as He is, not as we devise Him. The celebration of the Solemnity of the Holy Trinity is an invitation to enter into the mystery of God.


    A healthy discussion here might help allay some of the angst I feel about this.
  • SOCK GOBBLING

    "We use the term to refer to everything that we do not comprehend from the deep knowledge of God to the way that the dryer gobbles up socks."

    Basing this on what is a silly fable is a great way to start out....
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    When man-made mysteries were eliminated by the Liturgical reforms of the Second Vatican Council,


    . . . and when boogie monsters were still around . . .
  • This entire example is pure drivel.
    Perhaps the people that brought us Jonathan Livingston Seagull are working for LT.
    And the statements about 'man-made mysteries' are erroneous and ignorant.
  • incantuincantu
    Posts: 989
    The pen might be mightier than the sword, but only in capable hands. I wouldn't worry about this too much. Anyone who passed high school English will fail to be persuaded by writing like this. As for those who take articles by the likes of Elaine Rendler as having descended from Mt. Sinai, I fear there is not much hope in convincing them otherwise.
  • He might have more of a point if he said the Council of Trent, which did seek to dissuade the accretion of popular myths, most of which had grown up around the cult of the Virgin, but come on...
  • JamJam
    Posts: 636
    I can't really see what you're angsting about, because unfortunately I do not understand what on Earth they're saying in that piece there...
  • Mark M.Mark M.
    Posts: 632
    Thanks for the replies, friends.

    And Jam, you're right… really, the piece itself is pretty silly to say the least, and would be entirely dismissable if it weren't for the fact that this program serves as the primary catechesis for young people in some thousand-odd parishes in the U.S. and beyond.

    It's tough to argue for progressive solemnity when forces like this would prefer that anything that was once solemn in the liturgy remain dismantled. I primarily work with college students, and since my parish recently adopted the LifeTeen program, I'm angsty about the extent of re-education that will be needed. It was an uphill battle already; this doesn't help matters.

    I do find the whole "we must quiet ourselves down" part interesting, since the music they espouse for liturgy seems to be anything but quieting.
  • I have to agree with Jam---I have no clue what he is trying to say there! However, I do sympathize with your situation and wish you all the best of luck with being able to counter some of that type of liturgical thought.
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,577
    ST. JOHN VIANNEY'S VISION

    What vision of Saint John Vianney (1800s France)?
    Did Vianney ever have a vision about the Trinity?
    Or was that Saint Thomas Aquinas (1200s Italy)?

    QUICK TIPS FOR PRIESTS

    This is the angst part for me: that a priest receives
    an all-expenses paid two-year philosophy education followed by
    an all-expenses paid four-year theology education
    and needs "quick tips" like this.

    celebration [...] celebration [...] an overused word.

    :-)

    dryer gobbles up socks.

    Logical fallacy ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_fallacy ).
    How often has anyone found a sock in the lint trap?
    How often has anyone counted the number of socks before and after using the washing machine?

    mystery be preserved

    Actually, that mystery be respected.

    man-made mysteries were eliminated

    Name one please. Anyone?

    mystery is more intense than ever because it is directly in front of us.

    So intense, that we would rather direct your gaze toward something else.
    This is like being outside the Disneyland ticket-gates
    and looking forward to standing in line for the Matterhorn
    but someone helpfully provides you directions and tickets to Knotts Berry Farm.

    Human beings need mystery.

    No, mystery is not a need; it is a consequence of our nature.
    The need is to probe mystery.
    We learn bit by bit. We cannot learn it all. We must accept mystery. But we must also learn the bits.

    Husbands and wives ... true love that you know experientially and that I can only contemplate.

    How is this relevant to LifeTeen kids?
    Is this a pity card about celibate priesthood?

    sharing is not in the recitation of the dogma.

    Gotta dis the dogma.

    Saint Thomas Aquinas ponders his experience of the mysteries for years, and carefully put his insights into words, then is gifted with a more direct experience, and declares his words as straw compared to that more recent experience.

    I guess our thoughts on the subject are just as good as Saint Thomas. Yeah, right. More than fifteen years ago I spent many many summer hours reading Saint Thomas. I am not the sharpest knife in the cutlery shoppe, so it was an effort. Then one day it happened, wow, briefly I thought I understood what Saint Thomas was saying, then it faded. I was left again with looking at Saint Thomas in the distance, and wondering what he saw in the distance beyond him, that he would abandon what I had yet to attain. Like a dog at the table: More scraps? Yes please!

    "I say that" the LifeTeen blockquote is P.S. (processed straw) compared to Saint Thomas,
    and if that is the best "tips" that can be given, there is no reason to wonder why teens
    will still imagine the Holy Trinity as two dudes and a pigeon, and of no consequence.
  • Mark M.Mark M.
    Posts: 632
    Fantastic, eft.

    And for more, folks, check out the rest of their sample liturgy planning guide, with regular features such as "St. John Bosco's Banter"…
    CONNECTING WITH TEENS

    It is always great to have a cheering section during a game, a play, or a concert that just goes crazy for you when your name is called or when you score. Well, thanks to the Holy Trinity, we as Catholic’s [sic] have a built-in cheering section for the rest of our lives.


    …and "St. Cecilia's Corner":
    SETTING THE TONE OF THE LITURGY

    …it is not wise to put a group of singers on a condenser microphone right in front of a drum set or amplifier. Not only will the singers be picked up, but the sounds around it as well. If microphones or sound issues are a struggle in your parish, consider bringing in a consultant from a sound company to speak to your group about sound more in depth.

    (And I'm imagining St. Cecilia shouting from Heaven, "just ditch the microphones altogether! And while you're at it, the drum set too!")

    I'm all for "connecting with teens," and I don't mean to dismiss or speak ill of the positive elements of this organization and their work with young people. But can't this be done without dumbing everything down and without horribly distorting the liturgy?

    Note that on their web page, they proclaim themselves as (emphases are mine):
    • 100% Catholic
    • Obedient to the Magisterium

    • Centered on the Eucharist
    • Scriptural
    • Liturgical
    • Catechetical

    • Sacramental
    • Focused on social justice
    • Comprehensive

    *Sigh.* If this is "100% Catholic" and "Liturgical," then… well, I guess I'm just an out-of-touch elitist.
  • None of those proclamations are false, in a legalistic sense. The one line I would challenge is "Obedient to the Magisterium". Well the pope has called for more Latin and chant. How obedient can they be?
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,577
    Okay, downloaded the PDF. It is a sample of
    Lifeteen Liturgical Planning Guide 2006 pages 65-70,
    a competitive offering which might be compared against
    OCP Today's Liturgy, and GIA Quarterly.

    The layout presents thirteen sections
    headed by the same rounded-corners rectangle surrounding each section title.

    Why the complete texts for First Reading, Second Reading, Gospel,
    but only the citation and response for the Psalm?
    Perhaps to avoid the difficulty of someone seeing the complete text
    and realizing the song they want to use has words that do not match?

    Where is the Gospel Acclamation?
    And the rest of the Proper texts?

    Why use saint graphics and cute alliterations (Bosco Banter, Vianney Vision, Cecilia Corner)
    for only three sections, which already have related sections elsewhere,
    in a guidebook intended for adult leaders?

    After re-reading everything several times,
    I am not getting clarity of belief, worship, sanctification, edification.
    The whole package for the day is far too fragmented.
  • JamJam
    Posts: 636
    Catholic hierarchy has allowed a whole bunch of things to happen which would scandalize the Orthodox and previous generations of Catholics--altar girls, communion in the hand, secular kinds of "worship" music.... these things are officially allowed, even if not preferred. So it's possible to be 100% Catholic and go for this kind of stuff, isn't it? When you're following your Catholic bishop?
  • Is this a dig against Roman Catholics?
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,973
    No dig. Jam speaks the truth. The U.S. bishops have done a horrible job with the liturgy over the last 40 years. Don't look to them for guidance. They have been part of the problem, not the solution.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,211
    They'd better be sharing in "the recitation of the dogma" if they're Roman Catholics, who have, y'know, this thing called a Creed in the Sunday Mass.
  • JamJam
    Posts: 636
    I don't mean to sound mean or derogatory or anything. I just remember having a conversation in one of my classes with a rather popular face from EWTN. We were talking about liturgy and tradition and Latin, etc., and his line was essentially, don't question Mother Church. As far as he was concerned, if the bishops and pope allowed something (e.g. altar girls), then we were bad Catholics to react against that or say it wasn't a good idea.

    Of course, I don't have a such a problem questioning Catholic hierarchy. Come to think of it, I probably wouldn't have much more of a problem questioning Orthodox hierarchy...
  • I wonder what the lifeTeen writer would say about this:

    Archbishop Fulton Sheen said, "The rosary is the book of the blind, where souls see and there enact the greatest drama of love the world has ever known; it is the book of the simple, which initiates them into mysteries and knowledge more satisfying than the education of other men; it is the book of the aged, whose eyes close upon the shadow of this world, and open on the substance of the next. The power of the rosary is beyond description."