Do You Know The Difference ? ? ?
  • I wonder how many of us here on this CMAA site really know, and can classify, the differences between what is a polyphonic composition and a homophonic one, or between a composition that is an anthem vs a motet.

    For example:
    Ave Verum Corpus - Mozart is an example of ?
    Panis Angelicus - C. Franck ?
    Miserere - G. Allegri ?
    Exultate Jubilate - Mozart ?
    Haec Dies - William Byrd ?
    Gloria (Lord Nelson Mass) - Haydn ?
    Ye Choirs of New Jerusalem - Stanford ?
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Polyphony and homophony are a bit more clear cut. However, even the music experts don't agree on the definition for motet.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    It is important to note that the Church does not use the term "Polyphony" as the music world does. There are two types of sacred music in the Church's legislation: chant and "polyphony". I too find it thoughtless and pedestrian to link the Mozart Ave Verum in with Josquin, but then again this is religious legislation and not a music theory textbook.

    And if you want to go for technical usage, there is no reason that a motet need be religious. The earliest motets to bear that title weren't, and many were in fact written against the Church. And I believe (though I'm unsure) "anthem" doesn't even necessarily designate music. But if you want to go for the common usage, "motet" typically indicates Latin these days, and "anthem" English.

    I myself have to wonder what it matters what we call that music, so long as we're doing it.
  • priorstf
    Posts: 460
    Translations can help muddy these waters too. The Russian word for their national "anthem" is "gimn", a homonym for "hymn".
  • Yes, I think the Church says "polyphony" when it seems to be mean "part music". As for the strict definition, polyphonic pieces have multiple melodies of technically equal importance. The grey area occurs with those works where one melody (usually the top, but a cantus firmus may also cause this) draws the ear as a principal melody. I teach homophony as music with a principal melody and a composed harmonic accompaniment. Your list then consists of the following homophonic pieces:

    Ave Verum Corpus
    Panis Angelicus
    Exultate Jubilate

    The following I believe has a polyphonic fugue included
    Gloria (Lord Nelson Mass)

    I don't know this one, sorry.
    Ye Choirs of New Jerusalem

    As for anthem and motet, the two can overlap quite a bit. The anthem really has no tradition in the Roman Catholic Church before the 20th century and really it's just an Anglicism for motet, which itself is a very flexible term. Like Jeff, I have to wonder why you ask this.
  • This is hilarious! As I was driving in today, I was thinking about this very issue.

    Here's what always bugs me: Consider for a moment Byrd's Ave Verum Corpus. This is not really polyphonic in any sense; it is much more an example of homophonic writing. Yet it is considered to be polyphony. I think it is considered polyphony merely by virtue of the composer and time period - but it certainly isn't in any analytic sense.
  • Ken of Sarum, I'm not sure I'm willing to accept the premise of your query, nor do I understand the need for well-trained and competent choirmasters to deliberate the topic in detail. (BTW, Mike, the Stanford is a must sing!)
    Polyphony as a rubrical "form" evolved clearly, despite the legend, with issues of intelligibility of the texts of ordinaries, propers and hymns. Add to that factor the concerns over centuries with parody melodies composers (can we say Ockeghem?) integrated into cantus firmi that have been surmised as having a similar effect upon medieval hearers as those who hear Sondheim in Joncas.
    Misa Marcelli, as I recall, contains much more of what we'd dub "homophony" than does Pierluigi's "Sicut Cervus" (both pars.) But I'd dare not decree either work to be clearly in one camp or the other. Pretty much the same for your list.
    And, of course, once modality as a rubric gives way to the admittance of tonality, how can once classify certain works of the Venetians, of Bach, M. Haydn or Vivaldi(for examples), as not being pure examples of polyphony?
    I believe all of us who compose employ the attributes of both for reasons dictated by our muse, and likewise blend those dictates as we see necessary and satisfactorily.



    And, again, for the record: this posting was done from my home computer on my time. Yesterday, my nominal day off, was a full work day for me because of the holiday at school later this week. And I will still be reporting to work for a half day today when I sign off from this post.
  • My query is simple. In reading some other postings, I came to the conclusion that some here may not know these terms nor their historical backgrounds. I mean this as no slur on them. I am glad that all of you above have correctly pointed out not only with correctness this subject, but also how murky some of these waters can be even for well educated and trained church musicians. In all these areas of music there are exceptions as you all know so well. It is my hope that this little discussion will be of some useful help to others that either might not know, were perhaps unsure of, have forgotten.

    Several of the great teachers I studied with were all in agreement about one thing - truly great sacred music of Christendom, is built upon the principles of the modality of plainsong chant and thus plainsong chant itself regardless of their homophonic or polyphonic natures which can be varied; based upon the "muse" of the composer.
  • Just to (quickly, got little people tugging on me) highlight that a motet is a hard thing to define, Mozart's 'Exsultate, jubilate' is indeed a motet. I know because I sing the puppy, and its always made me ponder considering it a motet.

    Much 'beginning polyphony' is much more homophonic in texture. And good starter pieces often alternate textures.

    The anthem is much less familiar to me, and I look forward to being educated about its characteristics.
  • Well, yes, if we define homophony strictly as one melody and everything subservient, then many Renaissance and even some medieval works are homophonic. I've never really seen this as the issue, though. When Josquin composed Mille regretz, I'm quite sure that he composed the other 3 lines in a polyphonic sense, using the established conventions of counterpoint. IOW he was thinking polyphonically and thus we should hear it as he composed it, I think. WE have the baggage of 4 centuries of homophonic domination to listen through, but that doesn't mean we can't try. Homophony as an idea (not as a result) grows out of works like Josquin's along with the work of lute/vihuela song composers and improvisers of settings to strophic tunes and narrative declamations. These were also polyphonic but necessarily simple. Monody in the 17th century is simply a brilliant adoption of these traditions with the intent of focusing the ear to a single line. This is the birth of homophony as a concept.
  • Motets? Now there is a barrel of monkeys. I think a good definition of a Renaissance motet is a polyphonic setting of a religious Latin text which has no specific liturgical use. This quickly dismisses the polyphonic Propers and Marian Antiphons, which were composed for specific uses (but may in turn be used AS motets). The murky waters begin when composers choose actual Office antiphons for motet texts. There is very little evidence that antiphons were sung polyphonically during any of the Office Hours, although occasionally this may have happened at Vespers or Matins on special occasions. That composers grouped motets together in collections tells that no specific liturgical function was envisioned or obligated. Rather there is excellent evidence that they were used in processions, for devotional gatherings (or private ones), and as the music for religious dramas. They were also used during Mass, much like our current hymnody. Much to our chagrin, perhaps, there is evidence that a motet was sung in place of the Benedictus or even parts of the Propers. Just check out the practices in Milan to see how often a motet could replace parts of the Mass. The genre is a slippery one, indeed, but undoubtedly a rich one.
  • G
    Posts: 1,397
    And just to further muddy thing, the word "anthem" is a corruption of the word "antiphon."
    In common musician-but-not-musical-historian usage, "anthem" seems to connote "choir song in English" and "motet," "choir song in Latin."
    Although I had a book (from the '60s, Paluch maybe?) called "English Language Motets."
    And most hymnals used in Anglican churches have indices of "hymns that can be used as anthems", don't they? So what are they? hymns that are difficult enough to allow musicians to demonstrate skill beyond your average pew-dusters?

    All alii canti apti

    And not that it is not an interesting discussion, but is drawing a clear line between homophony and polyphony of anything other than academic interest?

    (Save the Liturgy, Save the World)
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    I am also aware that the excesses of polyphony caused the Church to order it simplified. One could barely make out the texts. Maybe music is a slippery slope that leads..where? To excess, then reform, then excess, then reform, then reform of the reform...
  • Ah yes, even though the Council suggested that polyphony should be clearer, outside of Rome things remained status quo. In Rome, though, we get some good "homorhythmic" polyphony and lot of really dull, monotonous stuff.
  • Wonderful comments! I didn't even know the origins of the "anthem" was from the "antiphon." Thank you!

    Motetus - "Medieval term (first used by Franco of Cologne,c 1280) for the voice immediately above the tenor in motets; it was also used to designate the entire composition, whether it consisted of two voices or more. In the earliest stages of the motet, when only Latin texts appear, the compositions were called ‘tropi’ or ‘prose’. Theorists also used ‘discantus’ or ‘motellus’ for the voice above the tenor." - Music Encyclopedia

    Motetus - "Latin choral composition, generally in one movement. Its origins are in the 13th century, when words (French mots) began to be added to originally wordless polyphonic lines in settings of plainchant. It grew directly out of the clausula, a polyphonic decoration of a portion of organum, but it soon split off to become a separate composition, while retaining a meaningless fragment of chant text and melody in the tenor part. The upper texts often became a confusing mixture of sacred and secular — and even anticlerical — poems, indicating its intended performance in courtly as well as ecclesiastical settings. The motet was the most important musical genre of the 13th century and an essential vehicle for the development of polyphony. In the Renaissance, sacred motets, now employing a single text, were written by composers such as Josquin des Prez, Orlande de Lassus, and William Byrd, though it remains unclear how often they were performed in church settings. In the 17th – 18th centuries, motets were written by Jean-Baptiste Lully, Marc-Antoine Charpentier, Heinrich Schütz, and Johann Sebastian Bach. After c. 1750 the genre declined, and its distinguishing characteristics became diffuse." - Britannica Concise Encyclopedia

    Anthem - "The English speaking Protestant Churches' equivalent of the Latin motet, from which it sprang. An Anglican creation, with a place in the C of E liturgy. It constitutes in ordinary churches the one great occasion when the choir alone undertakes the duty of song, and when an elaborate vocal setting impossible and unsuitable in other parts of the service becomes proper and effective. It is usually but not necessarily acc. by organ, and frequently incl. passages for solo vv., individually or in combination. The anthems of Purcell and Blow are like cantatas. S. S. Wesley was prolific composer of anthems nearer to the style favoured today. The term is also less strictly used, as in the phrase 'National Anthem', to denote a solemn, hymn‐like song." Music Encyclopedia
  • ANTHEM (Antiphon) - "In Roman Catholic liturgical music, chant melody and text sung before and after a psalm verse, originally by alternating choirs (antiphonal singing). The antiphonal singing of psalms was adopted from Hebrew worship by the early Christian churches, notably that of Syria, and was introduced into the West in the 4th century by St. Ambrose. The two choirs both sang the psalm text or, alternatively, one choir sang a short refrain between the psalm verses (V) sung by the other choir. The refrain was called an antiphon (A). The resulting musical form was A V1 A V2… A. Actually, most of the presentations of the antiphon were in abbreviated form. The antiphon text normally referred to the meaning of the feast day or the psalm. Canticles from the New or Old Testament might also be sung in this way."

    "Antiphons are now found principally in the canonical hours, or divine office. The parts of the mass known as the introit, offertory, and communion originally consisted of antiphons and psalm verses. During the late Middle Ages the psalm verses were dropped from the offertory and communion, which now consist only of an antiphon. The introit was shortened to one psalm verse and an antiphon (A V A). Musically, the several thousand extant antiphons can be reduced to a small number of melodic types of simple structure. The old antiphonal method of performance was eventually abandoned, and responsorial singing—by a soloist or soloists and a choir—became the norm."

    "The four Marian antiphons are long hymns, not true antiphons but independent compositions especially noted for their beauty: the “Salve Regina” (“Hail, Holy Queen”), “Ave Regina caelorum” (“Hail, Queen of Heaven”), “Regina caeli, laetare” (“Queen of Heaven, Rejoice”), and “Alma Redemptoris Mater” (“Kindly Mother of the Redeemer”). They were frequently set polyphonically (in part music) by composers from about 1400 onward. There are also special “antiphons” used for processionals at certain high feasts." - Encyclopedia Britannica