"Compromise" Music for Confirmation Mass
  • JDE
    Posts: 588
    Last year Confirmation was a simple affair. We didn't make a big deal out of it because it was held during Lent (big bummer for the kids).

    My pastor has told me to pick music that will be pleasing to everybody. So now I have to consider

    A) the aging boomers who act like they're being poked in the eye with a branding iron if they hear anything in Latin

    B) the numerous new and/or temporary residents from other, predominantly Catholic countries, whose first language is Spanish

    C) the people who think "Traditional Music" means Haugen'n'Haas(TM) or "Anthem."

    Of course, what we ought to do and what we can get away with doing are two very different things. We will use a blended ensemble at this Mass, consisting mostly of the adult choir (who have done some polyphonic pieces before) with help from the pop ensemble.

    Any suggestions you can make will be much appreciated. I tried the tack of saying, Right Father. All taken care of. We're doing pieces by two Spanish composers, Victoria and Guerrero.

    Unfortunately he didn't buy it.
  • G
    Posts: 1,400
    Our parish uses Jerusalem, My Density; Our God is an Awesome God; and We Sing Of Oursel.... I mean, We Come to Your Feast.
    Fortunately it also occurs in lent, so we are spared the bishop's favorite song, Halle-Halle-Halle.

    (Not suggesting any of this, just airing dirty linen in public.)
    Thanked by 1Casavant Organist
  • Oh, my gosh... we sang Jerusalem, my Destiny ad nauseum at the parish where we lived before now. I can't really put into words exactly why I dislike it so much, but it was a sort of visceral thing from the first hearing of it.
  • If I'm ever asked to do "Awesome God" ever, under any circumstances, I'll simply stand and stare, unblinking and blank-faced, at whoever made the suggestion until they realize how insulting that song is, on every level . . . theologically, gramatically, liturgically, musically, and decide perhaps it's not the wisest song selection.

    For me, it could quite possibly be the tipping point when it comes to pulling out the 2-week notice from the top desk drawer and the banker's boxes from the closet.

    G, you have my deepest sympathy.
  • G
    Posts: 1,400
    Well, other than a small financial hit, (since I won't be paid for that Mass,) I deserve no sympathy... the DRE gets what she wants, and needs to arrange for other musicians.
  • IanWIanW
    Posts: 762
    Yurodivi,

    Take a view: if, by making the kind of compromise you describe, you're able to help your parish move an inch closer to the glories of our liturgical heritage, stay in there.

    Otherwise, move on.
  • Would it help to have the the official texts from the official resources (as well as from the Simple Gradual)?

    Here they are.

    Blessings,
    Paul
    Binder1.pdf
    128K
    Thanked by 1tomboysuze
  • Jscola30
    Posts: 116
    There's a multi-lingual come holy spirit by Ricky Manalo from OCP, yea I know, but I didnt think it was that bad...mess with acc a little, I think its ok.

    Would the boomers seriously have a cow if you did Come Holy Ghost by Lambillotte?? If they would, jeezzzz....


    The only spanish song I've done is Pan De Vida..sorry
  • Although they are not liturgical -- but then again most of your list is not either -- Guerrero wrote some fine Spanish-language sacred villanellas that might please you and them.

    BTW the Spanish have always loved their pop music at Mass. It was necessary during the 17th century to restrict how many villancicos that could be substituted for Mass parts in Spain and Latin America. This is not a new problem. Yes, they had Victoria, Morales, Guerrero (and some other fine composers -- Vivanco, Lobo, Esquivel, Navarro, Peñalosa, etc) but the people and the Franciscans really liked their dancy villancicos...
    Thanked by 1tomboysuze
  • JDE
    Posts: 588
    Those pesky Franciscans . . . you can have anything, you just can't own it.

    Look. I would luuuuurrrrvve to tell the pastor and the congregation that it has to be all chant, all the time (with the occasional indulgence in Renaissance polyphony, but that isn't going to fly. I feel lucky, considering the musical-political climate in this Diocese, that the pastor hasn't stood in my way.

    The fact is (and Michael O'Connor's comment is an excellent example) that aside from a few oases of truth and beauty, music in the church isn't going to be perfect. I am dealing with the fact that the folk-choir director died suddenly in the middle of Lent a couple of years ago. He was a hero to a lot of people because he was disabled, but continued to do his duty in the parish. People who are accustomed to that style of music regard any retrogression (as they see it) toward chant as a slap in the face to the dear man's memory.

    The last pastor stood up to say the post-communion prayer once after I had just sung Panis Angelicus and demagogued thus: That was beautiful, Yurodivi and Grigorii.

    (he holds for applause while Yurodivi cringes)

    Now, who in here can tell me what that song means?

    The only hand raised was mine. And of course I don't count!

    His point: it doesn't matter if it edifies your soul, if you don't understand Latin, it doesn't mean anything. At least I think that was the point of embarrassing me and shaming the people in that way. And it was before we started printing music bulletins. But ever since then, i have never sung anything in a foreign language (even though Latin is the official language of the Church) without either printing a translation of the text in the bulletin (preferred) or reading the text over the microphone first (awkward, but necessary when the words won't fit in the program).

    We're going to have chant at Confirmation, and maybe some polyphony as well. But I have to throw in some of the c**p to get half a loaf. I think of it as bribing the kids with a nice, fat beetle grub to get them to eat their steak.
  • JDE
    Posts: 588
    Dr. Ford, thank you for the official texts. I'll try to hew as closely as possible to them in selecting the "compromise" tunes.
  • gregpgregp
    Posts: 632
    "Now, who in here can tell me what that song means? "

    I wonder if this is some kind of slogan they pick up at conferences - a friend who is a music director had exactly the same thing happen to him: Panis Angelicus at Communion, and the jerk (I'm sorry, the priest) stood up and said, "That last song...did you understand it? Do you know what it means? No, of course not. That's why we had Vatican II. It should be done in English. I used to teach Latin years ago, and I didn't understand it. Terrible."

    The bad news is that it (along with other similar actions) caused him to give up his position.

    The good news is that he moved to another parish where the priest welcomed him.

    The best news is demographic: the first priest is in his 60's; the second one in his 40's. ;-)
  • JDE
    Posts: 588
    The one who did it to me was moved to a new parish the following year. The Bishop wanted him to rescue a failing church with a school. He also used to refer to Latin and (of all things) the Proclamation of the Date of Easter as "the bad old days of the Church." Go figure!

    The new one is kind of middle of the road, but if I make my case well enough he usually doesn't interfere too much. He's currently on spilkes over our use of the Mass XVII Agnus Dei (with the translation printed underneath, as if anybody really needs it). Apparently there have already been complaints from the usual suspects. However, I've found that even they can be swayed by reason if I remain calm and avoid speaking in a manner that conveys "you are a moron" at the end of every sentence.

    The good news in this situation: because we only print one bulletin for all the Masses (cost cutting, don't you know) the folk/pop ensemble is using the Kyrie and the Agnus from Mass XVII as well. So at least the late Mass people are getting some exposure!
  • gregpgregp
    Posts: 632
    "if I remain calm and avoid speaking in a manner that conveys "you are a moron" at the end of every sentence. "

    Aye, there's the rub.
  • G
    Posts: 1,400
    Getting back to the question at hand, how about Come Down O Love Divine? (DOWN AMPNEY)
    Deiss, The Spirit of God rests Upon Me, (which because of its chant like rhythms would probably be easily translatable into Spanish for some verses.)
    The Lisicky (sp?) canon of Psalm 104 has a great deal of appeal for some people.
    Fire of God Undying Flame. (I use the first 7 notes of Veni Creator, as a kind of rhythmic vamp as an interlude between between verses; when I introduced Veni Creator it sounded vaguely familiar to them so they didn't fight it as much...)
    And although it is not confirmation specific, Master of Eager Youth has, you'll forgive me, catchy rhythmic idiosyncrasies.

    (Save the Liturgy, Save the World)
  • Jscola30
    Posts: 116
    That comment of who where understood that is truly disgusting and dispicable, especially during the context of a Mass. Mass is no time to embarrass someone. Sounds like he really doesn't understand what being pastoral meant. There are some sacro-pop songs in English I still don't understand (I myself am the Bread of Life for example). O and I'm sure had you picked a song in Spanish, Vietnameese, Arabic, etc. such comment would have never been given.


    Getting to G's comment's, DOWN APNEY is a wonderful hymn. Fire Of God is a wonderful hymn, set to NUM....o dear you know Savior of the Nations come....in Worship III.
  • G
    Posts: 1,400
    "Fire Of God is a wonderful hymn, set to NUM....o dear you know Savior of the Nations come....in Worship III."
    How refreshing to know that young whippersnappers (you are a young whippersnapper, aren't you?) can't remember such things either.... notice I didn't include the tune name in my post?
    NUN KNOMM DER HEILSOMETHINGOROTHER

    (Save the Liturgy, Save the World)
  • G
    Posts: 1,400
    Forgot to mention, there is a song that I sang at a funeral recently, not sure the author of the text, but it might have been a WLP piece, God of Mercy and Compassion.
    It is sung to BEACH SPRING, and as I said, it is a funeral text, but the 3rd verse would be superb for use at Confirmations.

    (save the Liturgy, Save the World)
  • Pan de Vida
    "Sorry."
    ???
    "I find no fault with this song." Pontius Carolinius
    Don't be sorry. It doesn't come close to being the unholy contraptions of many other "Communion songs" found in the newsprints.
  • incantuincantu
    Posts: 989
    The Manalo piece in question is "By The Waking of Our Hearts." The text is a pretty faithful paraphrase of "Veni Sancte Spiritus." And you DID say "compromise," right? For my confirmation I use "O Breathe on Me, O Breath of God" to ST COLUMBA and play it on the piano. No one has any idea that they're singing a hymn tune, which, who knows... if the confirmandi ever come back to church again as adults they may get another chance to sing with a different text. You could also do the "Ubi caritas" chant with verses in English. If Bob Hurd and and a couple Taize songs can get away with the refrain in Latin, why not this short major-sounding chant?
  • Incantu,
    Interestingly enough, as much as I love ST COLUMBA, I've never found it to be congregation-friendly. The trip-a-lets confound them, the leap from the fifth to the upper octave.....we Celts get that stuff, and I program "The King of Love..." any chance I get, but I confess to not expecting a lot of engagement from the PIPs.
    I also like the Manalo. I generally think he's the brightest bulb in the current contemporary crop. That's not saying he's Mozart or anything.
  • Jscola30
    Posts: 116
    G, I am a young whippersnapper indeed, who already has pulled out his back and has high cholesterol.
  • TO ALL, Please review this thread: http://musicasacra.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=266&page=1#Item_22
    AND DOWLOAD this document provided by Paul F. Ford, I'm afraid it was overlooked in the other thread: http://musicasacra.com/forum/?PostBackAction=Download&AttachmentID=16
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,577
    The main contribution I want to make to this forum discussion is regarding the program/booklet/worship-aid:
    (1) include texts and music notation if you want people to sing
    (2) include Ordinary texts if there is one word modified or repeated
    (3) include copyright info
    (4) include posture (stand, sit, kneel) directions
    (5) include titles and composers for pieces that are instrumental/solo
    (6) include USCCB reception of communion text ( http://www.usccb.org/liturgy/current/intercom.shtml )
    (7) include a devotional personal Communion prayer text
    (8) proofread, proofread, proofread!

    I recently was invited by relatives to attend a Confirmation.
    Program was three sheets 8.5x14.0, center stapled, folded (i.e., 12 pages).
    All Mass headings and titles were present (INTRO, Gathering, Greeting, Sprinkling, Gloria, Opening, ...)
    but here I indicate only pages and music info [and personal comments]:
    p1 cover graphics, date, location, parish names, VIP#1
    p2 welcomes and requests from VIP#1 and VIP#2
    p3 Gathering Song: "Just Like You" Matt Maher [no tune] Revive my heart [... Cuz' You're my God ... I wanna ...]
    p4 Sprinkling Rite: "Come To The Water" [no composer, no tune] Oh let all who [...]
    Gloria: [sung, no composer, no text, no tune]
    p5 Liturgy of the Word [most detailed, with scripture citations]
    Responsorial: "Psalm 104" [no composer, no tune, no verses so cue with touchdown-and-pirouette]
    Gospel Acclamation ... Gospel ... Gospel Acclamation repeated [confusion until VIP#1 "please sit"]
    Confirmation: [solo/instrumental, no attribution]
    p6 Presentation: "As It Is In Heaven" Matt Maher [no tune] Our Father [... Every eye proclaim ...]
    p7 Acclamations: "Mass of St Timothy" [no composer, no text, no tune]
    Communion: "Breathe" [no composer, no tune] This is the air [...]
    p8 Sending Forth: "You Are Holy/Prince Of Peace" [no composer, no tune] You are holy [echo everything]
    p9-10-11 confirmandi names
    p12 graphic

    I offer the above (1)-(8) suggestions because of the following. This event was held in a (mimicking a niece) really-really-big-big building to accommodate two parishes together (i.e., 150+ teens to be confirmed, seated in first pews with sponsors, all others behind somewhere). More than 15 minutes before scheduled start time, I entered a packed and noisy building. I do not recall whether or not there was music. I received a program at the door and found the relatives. Shortly before starting, VIP#2 repeated the content of page two (welcome ... cellphones ... flash ... wandering ...). More talking. Exchange from pew behind: (parent) Did you turn off your cellphone? (child) No, I set it to vibrate, so that when someone calls I can text them back! The music was led by one chanteuse (yes mic), accompanied by one grand piano (no mic), one drumset (yes mic), one guitar (yes mic), maybe one electric bass guitar. I do not recall whether or not we were asked to sing at any point, and not much congregational singing occurred. I could pick out locations of brave soloists; the rest mumbled along or almost hummed. Not knowing any of the music, and lacking notation, I did not sing. The drums entered each piece at measure 8 or measure 16 and persisted through the final measure, and seemed loud. Communion was long and chaotic, a short duration of singing followed by a long duration of guitar plucking unidentifiable chord progressions, all processed toward sanctuary using center aisle and returned to pews, then most stood and very few sat or knelt, and the talking resumed.
  • Steve CollinsSteve Collins
    Posts: 1,022
    The above sure sounds like a definition of purgatory on earth!
  • Pes
    Posts: 623
    It sounds like a parish picnic.
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    OY!
  • Man, I am glad I don't have to do that anymore...
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,507
    Is the ritual Mass for Confirmation new since the Councl? I was looking for propers in an old Graduale and only found the post-Confirmation antiphon.
  • Paul F. Ford
    Posts: 864
    Yes, Kathy.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,507
    From the old Graduale it appears that the Bishop arrived, was greated, confirmed, and left--all outside the context of a Mass.

    This year, propers.
  • Paul F. Ford
    Posts: 864
    That's what happened to me when I was confirmed in 1959.