I worry less about the forum as such than I do any particular person. I know that if a person complains about a previous job during a job interview, it is a sure killer. No one wants to hire anyone with a history of conflict, especially publicly expressed. It's just true.

Thank you for the reminder, Kathy. I've been troubled by this myself, which was one of the reason I wrote that article on Stealing Reputation.

When we get into those heated discussions, I notice that a lot of people (including myself) back off and stay silent, lest we add more emotional fuel to the fire. The net effect of that, though, is that those who are particularly passionate on the topic feed on each other's energy, sometimes resulting in discussion meltdown.

My advice to myself and others is:
* If you sense heightened emotion in yourself, don't post for another hour, or maybe a day.
* Would you say this to the person's face?
* Would you say it if your mother was listening?
* Would you phrase it differently if your next potential employer will read this?

And in particular: If you see someone over-react emotionally to something you wrote, that indicates that YOU probably went a bit further than they felt comfortable with. So the best response is to take the emotion DOWN, not to try to match or even out-do them.

The challenge is to talk about subjects where we have significant difference of opinion, and where we can be quite passionate, while keeping the discourse honest and respectful.

It ain't easy.

Fiddler on the Roof:

"Let the outside world break its own head. "
"He is right."
...
"You can't close your eyes to what's happening in the world."
"He is right."
"He's right and he's right? They can't both be right."
"You know, you are also right."

This must be the most lively and active forum, no?

disagree, agree,
pesonal problems, universal ones
sometimes cheering, sometimes get on each others' nerve
too funny, too serious
sad news, good news
ooops! and yeah!...
But most of all I learn so much.

Thank you CMAA

(well, this is the only forum I go anyway.)

I'm with Kathy and Carl D on this.

We don't want to be thought of as whiney purists with anger-management issues. And we aren't that at all 98% of the time.

However, CMAA is an unknown property to many people in musical and ecclesiastical circles and they may come here to check things out.

At the same time, this is an important "electronic community" for many and a place to share crises and concerns. Just do that in a way that seems as reasoned and temperate as possible. And remember that this is an open forum.

We should be free to express ourselves completely and honestly - this is a community that I have searched for for 30 years until I found you. CMAA has been a life changing haven for me. You are the musicians who truly seek what the Church desires. You care enough to tell me what you truly think and feel. Sometimes it gets messy, but families are like that. I always weigh my comments. I review them as time goes by and If something seems that it is not good to leave posted, I take it down or temper it. Waiting a day before posting is good for helping in the tempering process. I have often used that tool.

Above all, charity. The priest may be human, but in his office he represents Christ on earth (in personae Christi). In the scandal of our present time we have lost the ability to shield the weaker parts-unfortunately, that has become a literal truth. Tolerance is a rare trait these days except when it is overly required where it should not be - and I am speaking of relativistic inclusive modernist views that have no place in Catholocism. Standing up for what one believes is at times inevitably going to bring offense. Offense is OK and expected-we are engaged in a war over human souls. However, let not our offenses be sinful.

All in all, I find just about everything on this forum is very valuable. It challenges me to grow, to become more resolute, to realize and actualize those things that are truly sacred music.

May God keep and guide each of you as we continue on the path of Christ. You are a significant light of what it means to be true lovers of God in these dark days filled with hate, Godlessness and despair. Satan is the hater of Beauty and we certainly represent a reflection of the face of God in His beautiful music.

Thank you, Kathy, for this thread. We all need a point of reference from time to time.

I worry less about the forum as such than I do any particular person...No one wants to hire anyone with a history of conflict, especially publicly expressed.

To add to that: Employers are also not keen on continuing to employ those they perceive to be disloyal.

And parishioners and choir members have Internet accounts and feelings too.

Vincent,

Nothing is ever really private on the Internet. If people were under the false illusion of privacy, they might become even more chatty.

Mr. Tucker kindly notes: "I worry less about the forum as such than I do any particular person."

It is difficult in many cases to differentiate.

As a manager my permitted comment about a former employee is to simply confirm that the employee worked for me on a specified timeframe. Legal restrictions keep me from saying anything more. So when I read people badmouthing their previous employers I know they're hitting people who cannot hit back. They won't get the chance to do that to me.

Current hiring practice leads increasingly to incorporating Internet/blog/YouTube/etc. searches as part of our due diligence process. When I see somebody complain about previous bosses, I start looking pretty skeptically. If I learn that a prospective employee is even frequenting such a site, especially commiserating with the complainers, I am similarly wary. The bottom line is simply that nobody profits from the activity.

after reading everything peoplew have written i too must reluctantly concur. i grew up at a time when there were 3 tv channels and my college had THE computor in a large room full of punch cards.
things have changed so quickly.
the fact that your entire career is routinely judged on the bases of a few words on the internet strikes me as profoundly unfair but still its reality.

live and learn

Gosh, MA - I'll have to go to the thrift store and get one of those! I had Beethoven, Brahms, and Bach in my day, made out of a glittery stone. But definitely good listeners and good companions when I was practicing. What you recommend is something along the line of that cemetary bust (somewhere in Latin America) that people come to in order to whisper their cares, complaints, and petitions into his ear.

Meet you at the pub.

I have stepped away from the forum for several days, and have refrained from commenting on any threads, including the one I recently started and deleted my entries from (The Future and our Choices).

I think before members on this board either condemn others or congratulate themselves for somehow setting themselves above the fray, it would be a worthwhile exercise for individuals to go back to other threads they've participated in (especially recently) and read carefully everything they've posted.

In particular, the thread "Applicant should be a practicing Catholic . . . " has managed to stay close to the top of the "Job Openings" category, where it's particularly visible to members, lurkers and potential employers. In that thread, some have raised valid concerns about the legality of such a requirement, others have discussed what the Church may or may not intend or what the Church may be seeking to protect with such a position. Valid questions, all. There was a tendency however for some to take great umbrage to certain comments made and turn them into personal attacks on others' integrity and charity.

I strongly encourage everyone who reads this, especially those of you who have spoken strongly about professionalism on the Internet and appropriate or inappropriate behavior on the forum, to go back and read the comments you've posted. If you feel strongly about the reputation of the forum and the group, and if you think what you've posted is not up to the standards being discussed in this thread, especially if you have participated in this thread, wouldn't the right thing to do be to delete the offending post, so as to not appear hypocritical?

It seems the right thing to do, lest lurkers and others here weigh us in the balance and find us wanting.

Just my two cents.