• Since we have one cathedral musician at least on the list, how do you all handle the need to lead the diocese with the restrictions placed upon you by the cathedral clergy?
  • I think I can make an educated guess that for some, its not always the cathedral clergy who are the biggest hurdle. A cathedral musician faces many challenges from complacent musicians and pastors throughout the diocese. Defensive attitudes and plain old laziness about renewing the sacred liturgy abound. And budget realities can stifle great program vision.

    I say this after talking about this with a fine cathedral musician a few months ago. After hearing of his very real frustrations, I continue to pray for his encouragement and gradual success.
  • I have faced these problems all my career in churches; not just cathedrals!
  • David AndrewDavid Andrew
    Posts: 1,204
    [deleted by author]
  • MA Singing Mum hits the nail on the head. It often are the complacent musicians and pastors throughout the diocese that are the greatest hurdle.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,176
    Um, folks-- and I'm just speaking for myself here -- could we head off any temptation to talk about some individual's job experience, when he's not here to give his own story? It verges on gossip. Thanks for giving consideration to this.
  • Cathedral musicians have their own organization.
  • I suppose the question is, is a cathedral just another parish church in which special events are held, or does it reflect the musical desires of the Bishop for his diocese?
  • This concerns me when a cathedral musician authors an article about 100 hymns that shows no focus for music in the church...aside from trying to make everyone, Catholic and Non-Catholic happy at a Funeral Mass...c'mon, no one asks for How Great Thou Art at a funeral to make the non-Catholics comfortable, it is because it's emotional and that's what they are looking for...the emotionalism of non-Catholic worship praise services.

    Our own list cathedral musician mentioned a restriction that she works under...
  • AngelaRAngelaR
    Posts: 309
    I'm still new at my post at the cathedral in Peoria, and have only lived in the area a couple years, so some of what I say is only what I have pieced together from various conversations. Perhaps it is not even relevant to the question at hand, seeing as our situation in Peoria is very unique. Our biggest struggle is trying to keep up with everything that our bishop and liturgist are looking for (which is not a bad thing)! Our bishop seems to have changed things a few years ago (I am assuming around the time he took his post as bishop). Prior to Bishop Jenky's time, there were only a few truly big cathedral Masses every year. The bishop would do confirmations at the local parishes, and there were few other ceremonies besides the regular liturgical holidays and ordinations and such.

    Bishop Jenky envisioned the cathedral as being a real mother church to the diocese, however, and so the number of liturgical celebrations was drastically increased. We now have special Masses for lawyers, health care workers, etc. He also requires that confirmations be done at the cathedral instead of at the local parishes. This increased attendance at the cathedral has pushed forth its ability to be a real example of good music and liturgy. I believe we have something like 80+ different liturgical celebrations at the cathedral every year, all of them painstakingly planned!

    There is another prong to the work: we are working to offer diocesan workshops on the liturgy and on sacred music. One such workshop is coming up in less than two weeks. The Cathedral Chant School is a unique part of this same mission. I am periodically offering classes about reading and understanding chant, and working not only to develop fine cathedral scholae, but also to educate them in church documents and liturgy.
  • David AndrewDavid Andrew
    Posts: 1,204
    Angela M,

    Yours is a very encouraging story of hard work being done to the benefit of the Church and her Faithful.

    Soldier on! Yours is Yeoman's work!
  • I'm so impressed I am not going to make jokes about music for a lawyer's mass.
  • David AndrewDavid Andrew
    Posts: 1,204
    Oh, go on Frogman. It's an open door!

    For instance, the responsorial psalm for probate attorneys: "Here I am Lord, I come to do your will."

    *snort*

    We all need just a wee bit of harmless comedy. Even if it creates a rabbit hole.

    Any other contributions?
  • Donnaswan
    Posts: 585
    I am not going to comment on present situation here, except to say that in spite of having a lovely choir and doing good liturgy, the Pastor never attends our special sevices, or compliments the choir for a job well done and prefers the guitar mass. 'Nuf said.Too depressing. We ar ehaving an Ordinationsoon and Ican['t bring myself toeven mention the comunionhymns. Sigh

    Donna
  • G
    Posts: 1,397
    Color me chastened.
    "He also requires that confirmations be done at the cathedral instead of at the local parishes."
    I had heard people complaining about this (not at your diocese so far as I know,) and commiserated with them as they opined that it was the bishop's "laziness."

    But that the cathedral's praxis can stand as "example of good music and liturgy" is MORE than sufficient reason for this practice, so i apologize to anyone I maligned, (albeit only in my thoughts.)

    WOULD that our cathedral provided an "example of good music and liturgy".

    I am not going to comment on present situation here, except to say that in spite of having a lovely choir and doing good liturgy, the Pastor never attends our special services, or compliments the choir for a job well done and prefers the guitar mass. 'Nuf said.Too depressing. We are having an Ordination soon and I can't bring myself to even mention the communion hymns.


    I feel your pain.
    (Save the Liturgy, Save the World)
  • IanWIanW
    Posts: 756
    Speaking of Lawyers' Masses and rabbit holes:

    "My soul longeth, yea, even fainteth for the courts of the Lord" (sorry to bring the AV on here, but I love the translation).
  • Congratulations on all the great things going on in Peoria!
    I have the strong impression that far more good things are becoming possible in the middle of the country than on the coasts.
    In Baltimore and Washington the cathedrals in no way serve prominent liturgical or musical roles in their archdioceses.
    There are excellent choirs at both cathedrals, but no sense of them as models.
    Neither diocese runs any sort of workshops on music, which is probably good, in that they would almost certainly be repulsively awful.
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    Thanks Angela for all your work at the cathedral, which is an excellent model for other dioceses. It looks like really a good amount of work, and God called you for that and He trust you. I hope each diocese have a cathedral chant school like you. What a blessing.
  • AngelaRAngelaR
    Posts: 309
    Ah, I do need many prayers, however! It is a tremendous task that I am responsible for with the Cathedral Chant School, and I know there are many others out there far more qualified for it than me. They just don't happen to live here! The key for me is to stay one step ahead of the group I'm teaching....in the midst of numerous other activities!
  • AngelaRAngelaR
    Posts: 309
    ...and David Andrew, LOL on the responsorial psalm!
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,577
    The cathedral is the mother church of your diocese.
    A cathedral is a parish, just a big one.
    Whatever problems you can have in a parish, you can have bigger in a cathedral.
    Pray, and whenever possible, offer encouragement and assistance.
  • Chrism
    Posts: 869
    Cathedrals don't have to be parish churches, although most of them are. Cathedrals also can be capitular churches, but most of them in the U.S. are not. Absent chapter and parishioners, the cathedral church is the seat of the bishop, to which all parishes of the diocese are in relation as chapels are to a parish church.

    As the main church of all the parishes, the Cathedral has a responsibility not merely to be an example to parishes, but to regularly celebrate the fullness of the Latin liturgy--the Pontifical Solemn form.
  • Donnaswan
    Posts: 585
    We have a new Bishop, and I must say, I have hardly seen him in the Cathedral since Easter. One 10:30 Mass But he was also ill.

    Donna
  • I can report positive developments at the Cathedral of Palm Beach Diocese in FL. Adam Brakel, a young, but astoundingly talented organist, has taken the reins. I'm serving as a sort of informal advisor for him. He really wants to do the right thing, but doesn't have quite enough experience in liturgy just yet. At least there's a place I can go and sing proper Catholic music and it should only get better. The cathedral staff is behind him, if they do ask him to slow down at times.
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,577
    A positive "brick by brick" Cathedral experience is reported here ...
    http://www.catholicvoiceoakland.org/2009/11-09/letters.htm
    scroll down to "Cathedral music exults"
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,696
    Paul Thornock, Director of Music at St. Joseph's Cathedral in Columbus Ohio, recently while doing a workshop for music directors in the Diocese suggested that all of us read Sing Like A Catholic by Mr. Tucker. He is a huge supporter of singing both the Propers and Ordinary in Gregorian chant and polyphony. I'm sure, were he emailed and requested, that he could share some of his experiences here. He did mention during the workshop that Bishop Campbell is very interested in beginning to chant the Credo at the Cathedral.

    The music program is amazing... check it out: http://www.cathedralmusic.org
  • Send them to Baltimore, where the archdiocese works rigorously against excellent music and liturgy!
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    Wow, the parish choir and schola look good in Columbus, OH.

    Daniel, we have Latin Mass at 9 in our cathedral. How about our chapter propose helping it out? They definitely need some help. (Our Archbishop received PBC book and CDs of Dr. Mahrt's talks on sacred music last month after the White Mass, and he was very thankful. He also mentioned that he sees the value and the place of the sacred music in the litrugy, including Gregorian chants, but he knows the challenge.) I would like to talk about it at the chapter meeting this Saturday.
  • You could try, of course, although I think that it would be a waste of time.
  • bsven
    Posts: 20
    Angela M., I'm up here in the Joliet Diocese, where we have begun a schola to help with the extraordinary rite Mass set up by Bishop S. in Naperville. We are fledgling, but enthusiastic. Maybe we could be of help to each other! We sing the Gregorian propers from the Graduale every Sun. We offer prayers without ceasing...
  • AngelaRAngelaR
    Posts: 309
    Bsven, please email me! I'd love to hear more....
  • gregpgregp
    Posts: 632
    bsven, as a former resident of Lisle and student at BU (IBC/SPC), I'm delighted to hear that this is happening! Any help from St. Procopius Abbey?
  • rsven
    Posts: 43
    Angela, Am not sure how to email you; but I think that you know my daughter Anna from CMAA colloquia. I will get your info from her. Maybe we could be of help to each other. I have heard very good things about what you are doint in Peoria. Keep up the good work! Until later. To gregp: St. Procopius is just down the road. My daugher, Anna, graduated from Benet. My organ teacher is Fr. Palmer. Do you remember him? St. Procopius is not directly involved with us, although I have talked with Br. Augustine. It is a beautiful place. Not sure of the status of chant there.
  • AngelaRAngelaR
    Posts: 309
    Rsven, yes, I know who you are now, we met briefly when you visited the Colloquium, no? You can click on my name in blue on the thread, and my email should come up. If not, ask Anna to give you my info: she friended me on Facebook. :)
  • gregpgregp
    Posts: 632
    Rsven, click on my name to get my email address. Please email me.