PBEH Discussion: Sibelius
  • During the time that I spent working on TCCB1, I spent a lot of time in thought about the PBEH. This project has evolved from its original form.

    So, as a result, we will now accept hymns in Sibelius files with the provision that you use the Arrus text font, available free on the net, and format the page to be 6" by 9" and layout the margins and elements as close as possible to the sample files on the hymns page.

    At first, the intent was to create finished copies of the hymns for publishing so consistency was essential. Now we still intend to publish in that manner, but also are going to continue to build a download library of hymns, so with the variations in output from Finale in its various versions, there would seem to be no rational reason to make it difficult to people with Sibelius to participate fully in the project.

    Note that the more your file looks like other files the more chance that people will use it...

    With the real possibility of electronic hymnbooks in the near future, this project become more important...
  • Noel--Could I offer a suggestion?

    I really think that using XML in this project would do an incredible deal of good. Perhaps a Sibelius user who has Dolet (and I might just buy it and become that person!) can receive all contributed .sib files, export them to XML, and add them to the project. Then a you could open the xml file, apply a house style (or whatever they are called in Finale), save to pdf and publish. I see a huge value in publishing the source of these files in a format that everyone can use--then this would be truly "open source". People may want to add or remove a verse, alter the harmonization, to create a melody only version, or SA, or whatever. These edits could even be contributed back to the project and it could grow organically. I really see a lost opportunity if sharable source files are not included in the plans.

    This would also obviously allow for standardized formatting in the creation of books, etc.

    What do you think about this?
  • don roy
    Posts: 306
    i just wanted to take the time and thank you for all you do. i visit your job link page virtually everyday and am in awe as to how much you give to the nlm community.
    its people like you that are in the trenches propelling the reform of the reform forward on a daily bases.

    thanks again
  • We have explored using XML and have had very poor results...I am not blaming this on Sib or Fin, but it is faster to enter a hymn in Fin...and I suggest also, Sib than trying to doctor one up that has come in by way of XML from Sib.

    There is absolutely no reason why the entire hymn library will not eventually be in XML form as well as Finale. This has been an intention all along, and there is the opening for anyone to go ahead and then convert the XML into a corresponding Sib library.

    It would seem to be better to create nothing but an XML Library and let people work directly from it. But can you just take an XML file and print it in a mass program without using an intermediary program?

    Mass acceptance of XML and an ability to use an XML file in various forms to create worship guides would be great, but I am not sure if that is at all possible.
  • I have had very good success importing XML files into Sibelius, but I can't speak of the experience in Finale. XML is just a file format, a language really, that captures all of the score content which can be opened in various notational programs. Sibelius uses "house styles" where I can add an entire subset of formatting changes, fonts, spacing, everything, to a score with a single click. Therefore I can open an XML file of a hymn, created anywhere, apply a "house style" and have a polished score in minutes. So XML is not a "final product" file, that will still need to be in PDF, but the key in XML is cross-platform interchange and the ability to actually access the source, which cannot be done simply with PDF's.
  • As I have said, the intent has always been to have the library available in XML but it has to come from someplace and the most accepted places for it to come from are Sib or Fin at this time.

    However, the goal of the project is to make it possible for people to easily look at hymns, and use them. And that's why PDF is so important since it is the only document format that is universal....meaning that they build it and maintain it to work on any operating system within reason and GIVE IT AWAY.

    This brings up the most important aspect of CMAA, giving. We will overcome the bad music of the last 50 years if only because the only way you can get it, without requiring a trip to the confessional, if not court, is it pay for it.

    So the plan is:

    1. PDF the library.

    2. Make the Finale .MUS files for all of the hymns available.

    3. Create a truly Catholic hymnal from it, edit it and publish it.

    4. Create the XML library [easy task]

    Then come the additional forms that the library should be in...
  • The jobs page...it's sad that when I created that I thought I was doing other people a favor, but now am rather desperately searching it myself....