Anyone singing Dies Irae for All Soul's in the Ordinary Form
  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,188
    Am contemplating it. Thoughts?
  • We will sing it however OF rubrics/GIRM preclude its use as a Sequence or substitute for the Responsorial Psalm. Insertion as a hymn (e.g. Communion meditation) is acceptable though.
  • yes yes yes, we are doing it as a sequence, on request from the pastor, which is wonderful. It is, after all, a sequence. The Missal says that two sequences are required and the rest optional, without specifying what the rest are. Nothing in OF rubrics preclude it, despite the claim of our friend above here. There are OF parishes in the country that sing Sequences all year long.
  • Our schola won't be singing on All Souls' Day, but we have sung sequences at other times during the year -- the Easter sequence, The sequence at Pentecost and the (shortened) sequence on the feast of Corpus Christi...
  • One of the (myraid) horrible things about the OF/NO is the requirement that the sequence precede the Alleluia and verse. This, of course, flies in the face of centuries-old practice and the very name of the sequence as a chant following (and even built upon) the Alleluia jubilus. A great abuse, as are so many things in the NO invented from scratch in the 1960s.
  • Thank-you, Jeffrey! Once again I've been led astray by those who should know.
  • The GIRM and the Ordo Cantus Missae give seemingly contradictory instructions about the position of the sequence. The GIRM directs that it precede the Alleluia. The Ordo Cantus Missae says: " Sequentia, si casus fert, cantatur post ultimum Alleluia..."

    The conflict is usually resolved by following the OCM when the Alleluia and Sequence are sung to the music provided in the Graduale and otherwise following the GIRM.

    From a musical standpoint the direction in the OCM makes sense, since sequences were originally (we are told) developed from the jubilus of the Alleluia. From a liturgical standpoint the GIRM direction makes more sense because the Alleluia was introduced to the Roman mass from the East as a Gospel Acclamation, and the subsequent intorduction of sequences obscured the function of the Alleluia.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,176
    I'm inclined to think the OCM takes precedence for sung Masses (i.e., Masses in which the priest's parts are sung). Is that a fair resolution of the discrepancy?
  • Other than the music , All Soul's Day here has evolved into a bereavement Mass to "remember " the dead who live on in our memories, and the Mass consoles the living . I do not hear much about praying for the dead anymore. I attended a Mass for my father where we merely "remembered" him, and the prayers during the petition were directed toward comfort for the living. I also hear many times ( at various Catholic Churches) that the dead live on in our memories, and no mentions is made of heaven, or purgatory.I still believe in heaven and hell and I really expected a l bit more of the theology to unfold in the liturgy.
  • The petition for the dead in the Roman canon begins, "Memento etiam..."

    The official title of All Souls' Day is "Commemoration of all the faithful departed."

    Doesn't "remembrance" of the dead in the context of the liturgy constitute intercession on their behalf?

    Indeed, many intercessory petitions--not only those for the dead--take the form of asking God to "remember" A, B, or C. Remember your servants who here stand around, whose faith and devotion are known and manifest to you... who offer this sacrifice of praise...."

    If the Roman rite was used at the Mass for Ralph's father, petitions for the dead were almost certainly offered. All the Roman Eucharistic prayers include one.
  • I think the point is how the EF Requiem Mass is strictly for the dead. Even when celebrated "Solemn High" the ferial tones are used throughout the Mass. And, at the end of the Mass, there is no blessing imparted on the congregation attending. It is a stark difference from the NO Mass of Christian Burial where even the "Agnus Dei" petitions remain the same as any other NO Mass - "...have mercy on us", and "...grant us peace". So the point is that every NO Mass is primarily about US - period. Only occasion, token petitions and remembrances of the dead are allowed.

    When I'm dead, please, give me an EF Requiem. Even if there is no one capable or interested in chanting the Requiem Mass, just give me a spoken EF Mass.
  • AngelaRAngelaR
    Posts: 309
    We sang it last year in the OF Mass at the Peoria, IL cathedral, when All Souls coincided with the Sunday Mass. We added some drones, organ, and organum, and it sounded really neat! Bishop Jenky actually encourages the singing of the sequence before the Gospel. I sang a portion of the sequence for Corpus Christi at our cathedral OF Mass this year, and a cantor and I both sang the Victimae Paschali Easter Sunday.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,703
    Good idea Steve. Perhaps we should establish a "requiem schola" (maybe two- east and west) which would be a national choir that assembles for any of the CMAA's members funerals. Count me in. (I also have one piece of polyphony which I will send soon for those willing to learn it). I am also willing to be burried in a sawed off 64' pipe with neatly crimped ends (or if it's a flute a couple of stoppers will be just fine) and put my funeral money into paying for good music.

    Back on topic, we have sung almost every sequence this year, albeit in English, however, we could probably do it as a communion "hymn" being that the sequence happens to be highly visible music, and the Latin at that point would be a disconnect for some. We are going to start the Propers, I am thrilled to report.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    I had the same idea about the pipe, Francis!
  • Kevin, yes, here in North Georgia we are singing Dies irae as a prelude for the Requiem Mass on All Souls. Fr. Byrd who is pastor at Our Lady of the Mountains in Jasper will be saying the OF in Latin, and all of the propers will be chanted by St. Michael's schola (Woodstock).