Ordinary's Text
  • ref_scottref_scott
    Posts: 90
    My parish recently started using new mass parts for the ordinary for the masses at which Latin chant ordinaries aren't sung. The melody is reverent and tasteful, but the words go like this:

    Holy, Holy, Holy, Lord God of power and might.
    Holy, Holy, Holy, Lord God of power and might.
    Heaven and earth are full of Your glory
    Hosanna in the Highest, hosanna on high
    Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord
    Hosanna in the Highest, hosanna on high.

    Is this permissible? It is obviously not the straight text out of the Latin Translation in the current Roman Missal. I know this will be resolved when the new translation comes out, but how much room do composers have with the words of the mass?
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    That sounds like a well-known version from John Foley SJ (of the "St Louis Jesuits"). Repeating part of the authorized text is OK, but deviating from it ("hosanna on high") is not.

    As a mitigation of the fault: at least the added text just repeats the meaning of "hosanna in the highest" and does not change the meaning of the text.
  • incantuincantu
    Posts: 989
    There are so many beautiful settings of the Mass that do not repeat unnecessarily or otherwise alter any part of the text. Why choose one that does? Here's a good test: ask a fifth grader to write out what they would say for the Sanctus at a Mass with no music. If they can't come up with a the text, there's something wrong with they setting they are singing.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    To correct myself: the Foley version does not repeat the first line, so this deviated setting must be someone else's.
  • ref_scottref_scott
    Posts: 90
    This is not Foley, "St. Louis Jesuits" are not permitted in the parish. This is to the tune of a hymn and distributed by a traditional publisher, so I do not know why they would divert from the text. It is obviously to fill up the measures in the tune. Can anyone point me in the direction of documents that talk about changing the text of the mass?
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    Redemptionis Sacramentum, the 2004 Instruction "On certain matters to be observed or to be avoided
    regarding the Most Holy Eucharist", has this:

    "[53.] While the Priest proclaims the Eucharistic Prayer “there should be no other prayers or singing, and the organ or other musical instruments should be silent”, except for the people’s acclamations that have been duly approved, as described below."

    "[54.] The people, however, are always involved actively and never merely passively: for they “silently join themselves with the Priest in faith, as well as in their interventions during the course of the Eucharistic Prayer as prescribed, namely in the responses in the Preface dialogue, the Sanctus, the acclamation after the consecration and the “Amen” after the final doxology, and in other acclamations approved by the Conference of Bishops with the recognitio of the Holy See”. ...

    "[112.] Mass is celebrated either in Latin or in another language, provided that liturgical texts are used which have been approved according to the norm of law."
  • cantatedomino
    Posts: 1
    I believe you have mistakenly attributed this sanctus text to Fr. John Foley. To the best of my knowledge, JF has only published one Mass setting, the Mass of the Pilgrim Church, and it uses the approved text word for word with only minimal repetition. Nor are these words from the St. Louis Jesuit Mass (composed by R. Dufford and D. Schutte) which does repeat various phrases but is otherwise nearly identical to the approved text (does change 'in the highest' to 'on high').
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    Yep, I corrected myself above.
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