English Communios with English Verses
  • soli
    Posts: 95
    Good afternoon, everyone! I am wondering if anyone could please point us in the right direction. Up to this point we have been chanting the communion antiphon in English according to the text in the Missal. Now, we would like to begin adding the correct Psalm verses to that. Which Psalm verses would those be? Not the ones for the communios from the Gregorian Missal, I am guessing. Thank you in advance for any advice. We will probably use the settings from the Meinrad Chant http://sacredmusicproject.com but are looking for the correct Psalm verses to point. These verses in the Misalettes do not always match the actual communios from the Gregorian Missal, if I understand it correctly.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    The antiphons in the Roman Missal don't come with verses specified, since they were added to the Missal for use in spoken Masses, whereas the antiphons in the Graduale Romanum (from which the Gregorian Missal is derived) are for sung Masses.

    Of course if the texts match, it makes sense to use the psalm verses specified in the GM; but you're free to use other psalm verses or Magnificat verses.
  • soli
    Posts: 95
    Thank you for your response. This helps a lot!
  • Adam Bartlett
    Posts: 533
    Yes, this is a difficult problem. I usually first consult the Graduale Romanum to see if the antiphons match, and if they do I take the verses prescribed there from an approved English translation of the psalms (currently NAB). And if they do not match and the antiphon is from one of the psalms, which they often are, I use verses from the same psalm. If the antiphon is not from the psalms I guess I just have to use my intuition--For example if the antiphon is eucharistic I might use Psalm 34, etc. This method is far from ideal, I think, but works for now. I am hoping that things will improve after we get into the new translation of the Roman Missal. I hope this helps.
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  • Jeffrey TuckerJeffrey Tucker
    Posts: 3,624
    Another reminder of how difficult the English Mass really is. It can consume all one's energies in just planning and finding and writing. We were struck by this last week in planning the Coll 2010. We spent as much time planning the one English Mass as we did all others combined. It is overwhelming and the confusions and complications never seem to end.
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  • Ralph BednarzRalph Bednarz
    Posts: 493
    Jeffry: For the reasons you mentioned I gave up trying to score all the antiphons and chants in English. And many of the prepared English scores or pointed texts bring problems with the accent. Therefore the Latin antiphons have become the paradigm for our choir. Their accessibility through your site streamlines my prep time ( as this is more of an avocation for me) and they also
    help us become more skilled an chanting. I reserve the English verse texts for the cantors as they require too much rehearsal time for the choir. The Meinrad English Kyriale for the ordinaries are beautiful, and ready to print. I would like to hear the English Orbis Factor at the 2010 Coll.
    I have been writing publicity articles for newspapers , neighboring church bulletins and posting signs at Starbucks. We are having great success recruiting members; The choir loft may need to be expanded. there is an amazing Interest in chant.
  • dvalerio
    Posts: 341
    Here in Portugal over the years several priests have composed music for the Entrance and Communion antiphons in the Missal. As far as I've noticed, they use the verses indicated in the Gradual, even when the antiphon doesn't match.
  • AlVotta
    Posts: 41
    Valério, do you have scores to these compositions by Portuguese priests? I would very much like to know them.
  • soli
    Posts: 95
    Thank you, all, for your continued input! It all helps to piece things together. Last year we started singing the communio each week using the tone and words from the Anglican Use Gradual. Later, we started setting the versicles as they appear in the Missal (so that the pips can figure out what we are chanting at the time of the priest's communion). I wish we could use the Latin communio with the english versees and merely give translations - make a little booklet of the Propers for each week and leave it in the pews- but I am really not sure of the level of support we would have and our project might get stopped altogether (which is also why, for the present, we are limiting ourselves to the verses in the Missal). So, for now we continue. We could also sing the communio with verses when they match, and when they don't we could chant the antiphon alone and then sing something else or organ. Which do you think is better liturgically - picking our own psalm verses as suitably as possible or singing something else/organ?
  • dvalerio
    Posts: 341
    > do you have scores to these compositions by Portuguese priests?

    Just a few... There are many complete series of Responsorial Psalms by several authors; also of Divine Office antiphons and hymns; as well as complete series of Entrance and Communion antiphons (according to the Missal), chosen among the works of several authors, and published by the Bishops' conference (see the indexes of vols. and 2). Many more similar compositions exist, with different degrees of difficulty, ranging from very easy to pretty hard (and having also different degrees of quality, from rather poor to excellent!).

    I only have some of them, but it's difficult to choose and post. Wouldn't it be easier if you would pick a particular Sunday and then I'll see what I have?

    Also take into account that this plethora of material follows the Portuguese translation, which differs from the Brazilian translation!
  • dvalerio
    Posts: 341
    > Which do you think is better liturgically - picking our own psalm verses as suitably as possible or singing something else/organ?

    If memory does not fail me, it is during Ordinary Time that the communion antiphon in the Missal more often does not match the one in the Gradual. And then there are usually two antiphons to choose from, one from the Psalms and one from the Gospel. If the antiphon is from a Psalm it poses no liturgical difficulty to sing further verses from that psalm. Even when the antiphon is taken from the Gospel I fail to see any liturgical reason not to sing verses from a suitable psalm, be it the one in the Gradual or some other one related to the given scripture...

    If my reasoning is defective or if I am ignoring any sound liturgical rule please let me know!
  • Richard R.
    Posts: 776
    My Simple Choral Gradual (on this site somewhere's) uses the Missal texts. The accompanying Psalm verses may not be officially official, but seem reasonable to me. Most of the antiphon texts for Sundays match, or have corresponding texts, in the Graduale anyway, and for the New Testament alternatives, I see no reason not to use the same Psalm verses.
  • soli
    Posts: 95
    Thank you very much, Richard! This is a great help - now we can use the psalm verses that you have and even are now aware of your choral settings of the propers which we plan on using as well sometimes! Thank you for your great work:)
  • AlVotta
    Posts: 41
    Valério, I'd love to receive some pieces - I trust you with choosing what you find particularly interesting or noteworthy.
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