Are We at a Critical Junction for the Mass & Sacred Music in the U.S. Once Again?
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    The Question

    What should we, as the body of musicians of the church say (and do or not do) to continue to direct the Reform of the Reform?

    Should we continue to participate in promoting (employing the new texts in musical composition) and promoting the 'new music' of yet another vernacular translation?

    Is history repeating itself again?


    "Among the early problems was the instability of the translations, which were changed a number of times during the period of experimentation which produced many temporary versions."


    I think our translations may be permanently temporary if we keep this up!

    (Note: There are interesting references to Fitzpatrick's influence in this article.)

    +++++++++++

    from SACRED MUSIC, Vol 110.1, Spring 1983, by Monsignor Richard J. Schuler


    A CHRONICLE OF THE REFORM
    PART V: The Place of Music in Eucharistic Celebrations

    The enormous task of implementing in the practical order the wishes of the council fathers as expressed in the constitution on the sacred liturgy occupied the attention of the Roman authorities for nearly ten years. Two official bodies were involved in the process, the Consilium for Implementing the Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy and the Sacred Congregation of Rites. Difficulties between the two groups were many, but they were eventually solved by the establishment of the Sacred Congregation of Divine Worship to replace the old Congregation of Rites and the reorganization of the Consilium as a special commission dedicated to completing the liturgical reform.1 Many conflicts of personalities and problems between the liturgists and the musicians continued to trouble the work of implementing the reforms called for by the council.

    For church musicians the most important events of the decade following the close of the council were the publication of the new liturgical books as well as the various instructions and decrees of the Consilium and the Congregation of Rites and later, the new Congregation of Divine Worship. Fundamental to the entire reform was the new order of the Mass which was finalized with the appearance of the Missale Romanum in 1969. Controversy over the introduction to the 1969 edition led to the issuing of another "Institutio generalis Missalis Romani" in 1970. The Latin text of the missal remains the basis for all vernacular sacramentaries that have been published throughout the world.2

    The new order of the Mass brought new texts for which musical settings were wanting, particularly the responsorial psalms. The rearrangement of introits and communions, different from the old order, as well as the three-year cycle of scripture readings, presented some difficulties at first. The new calendar impinged more closely on the church musician, because of the suppression of some feasts and a revised positioning of others. A new system of classification of liturgical celebrations according to importance brought a new vocabulary with "memorials," "solemnities," "ordinary time," etc. The old octaves were gone for the most part, and the familiar sequences were no longer obligatory.

    Publication of a new Graduale Romanum followed shortly. Based on scholarly research and sound methodology, the chants for the Mass were made available in an edition prepared by the monks of Solesmes.3 According to the principles enunciated in the preface to the volume, only authentic chants were included, eliminating many pieces that had cluttered the earlier 1908 edition. New feasts introduced into the calendar with texts lacking in authentic chant settings would have to be provided with music written in the idiom of our day, since Gregorian chant is no longer the style of contemporary composition and the process of producing an ersatz chant has been discredited. Music for newly introduced responsorial psalms would have to be newly composed. The challenge of the council fathers to musicians was seen to be an on-going one.

    The new missal contains eighty-seven different preface texts. To provide musical settings for use at the altar, the monks of Solesmes edited a volume called Ordo hAissae in cantu. Settings for the prefaces in both solemn and simple tones, as well as musical notation for the singing of the four Eucharistic prayers, and the various introductory rites made up this most useful volume.4 Together with the Graduate Romanum and the Missale Romanum, the Ordo Missae in cantu provided the clergy and the musicians with all the books needed to celebrate the sung liturgy in Latin.

    An effort to introduce a simpler chant for the Mass produced a Graduate simplex, which was a failure from the beginning. It neither pleased the progressive liturgists who wanted only the vernacular, nor the musicians who pointed out that it was a mutilation of Gregorian chant as well as a misunderstanding of the relationship between text and musical setting with reference to form. They objected to the use of antiphon melodies from the office as settings for texts of the Mass. An effort at an English vernacular version proved to be even a greater disaster.

    The revision of the office and the ritual had less impact on the ordinary church musician, although it caused grave changes in monastic communities.5 No new official books in Latin with musical notation have been forthcoming as yet for the universal Church for the singing of the hours, although attempts to set the vernacular texts can be found. The official Liturgia horarum has no musical settings.

    While the Holy See published the official revised liturgical books in the Latin language and spread them around the world, in the United States these books remained almost totally unknown, and in fact, in some dioceses, their use was prohibited by local legislation that forbade the use of Latin.6 To a great degree, the American clergy still do not know the Missale Romanum, the new Graduale Romanum or the Ordo Missae in cantu. They continue to co-relate the use of Latin with the old rite and the vernacular with the reformed rite. When asked to sing a Mass in Latin, they frequently resort to the old editions which are no longer in use. The confusion spread in the sixties concerning the use of Latin still continues.

    Thus, with the virtual demise of Latin and with it the repertory of Gregorian chant and polyphonic music, church musicians turned their efforts to music for the new vernacular liturgy. Among the early problems was the instability of the translations, which were changed a number of times during the period of experimentation which produced many temporary versions. Choirs were discouraged by the assertion that there was no longer a place for them, and they regretted the loss of familiar repertory. New music was not quickly forthcoming, although publishers rushed to sell compositions, many the work of total amateurs. It soon became apparent that the congregations that were expected to sing psalms and responsories and lengthy antiphons and parts of the Mass, were only capable of mastering a few hymns and not much more. The vernacular liturgy did not generate a "nest of singing birds" in the United States, and with choirs disorganized, the combo of a few instruments with various types of so-called folk-music became the musical ensemble in many churches. The organ was replaced by the guitar, the choir by the vocal combo, the professional musician by the amateur, the sacred by the secular. The hoped-for flowering of the privilege of the vernacular did not mature. Rather the speed of the disintegration of all that had been worked for during the years since Pius X amazed serious musicians. The decay was incredible.


    You can finish reading this article here:

    http://www.musicasacra.com/publications/sacredmusic/pdf/sm110-1.pdf

    __________________________

    P.S. Once you have read this article, please snailmail all of your precious tears in a small vial to:

    USCCB Secretariat for Divine Worship
    Rev. Msgr. Anthony F. Sherman
    Executive Director
    c/o Jesus and Mary
    3211 Fourth Street, N.E.
    Washington, D.C. 20017

    on the vial please place a small label "in care of Jesus of Mary"
  • My $ 0.02:
    The ordinary of the Mass in English is likely to be stable for a very long time after the new translations are available. This is the easy part, with the exception of the so-called Memorial Acclamations.
    The proper of the Mass in English is likely to remain unstable and to be based on poor translations of Scripture. It will be subject to continued editorial incompetence and immoral licensing agreements. This affects the responsorial psalm far more than any other of the propers, where different translations can be considered 'alius cantus aptus'.
    The Church has not shown itself to be able to produce a vernacular version of any liturgy that sustains musical and ritual excellence. I would confidently enter any wager in favor of this view.
  • The Church needs a simple, printed and notated guide with CD's to teach what should be sung and how to sing it to move a parish from Point A to Point B.

    This can go right along with the translation as it reforms the spoken liturgy...why not reform the sung liturgy right along with it.

    There are a ton of priests out there who would love to be able to buy something that they could refer to and present to their people, especially if it contain outlines for catechesis at all levels, including homilies. Their fear of Latin can be diminished if there is a basic Latin teaching module, based upon common words in the Liturgy.

    CMAA is in the position to do this...this, more than anything else, will shift the tide. Identification of supportive Bishops can easily be done. And if these materials can be used in the presentation of the reformed liturgy to everyone, including priests, there is a good chance that this could succeed with the kind support of people on this list.
  • Mr. Z
    Posts: 159
    Good example, probably too well known here:





    The propers, in English, is a good start, the quality that I have seen, the SATB version is very good, and we need more settings like these. A start of a back to tradition youth movement would also be fantastic. More prophetic voices, more prayer.
  • incantuincantu
    Posts: 989
    DBP - I'm not aware of a provision for "alius cantum aptus" being applied to the responsorial psalm.
    If the problem of translation arises less frequently in the other propers, it's that those few who have decided to set these non-commercially viable texts have generally done so with great care. If there were a market for vernacular settings of "Precatus est Moyses," for example, that text would likely suffer from the same carelessness or liberties in the continued absence of an official translation on the Offertoriale.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,157
    I think there's some provision for "metrical psalms". That rubric could be used to justify replacing the psalm with some song, on the rationale that the song is a paraphrase of the appointed psalm.

    From there, the slippery slope leads to a song that is said to be "based on" some psalm, or some snippets of psalms, or some snippets of scripture, or has the structure of a responsorial psalm. :-)
  • Correct: alius cantus does not apply to the responsorial psalm, just the other propers.
  • mahrt
    Posts: 517
    It would help if we could be clear on what the paradigm is, whether in Latin or English: Gregorian chant has principal place (principem locum—translated poorly as pride of place), classical polyphony comes second, other sacred music based upon texts from the scripture and the liturgy comes next. Further, the traditional division of pieces into ordinary for the congregation, which can be repeated over several weeks for the sake of learning, and proper for the choir (which of necessity, at least ideally, changes every week and cannot be learned by a congregation. These principles applied gradually and to the extent that ability allows them to be done well, could mean a great improvement on the long run.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    mahrt:

    Are you are saying that your paradigm in order of importance would be as follows? I am trying to understand the order of importance that you outline here. If I understand correctly, you are saying this goes for both, English and Latin. Yes?

    Noel is absolutely correct in his assertion that the church needs a simple guide for the reform of sacred music. A clear simple list of priorities for including music in the liturgy of some sort. What is important , what is less important and what is not important at all.

    Here is a simple chart to start with. Feel free to make corrections and/or additions as you see fit. I think something like this could be quite valuable for moving a music program toward its proper goals.

    Also, how would instrumental (mainly organ) and vocal solo music fit into this scheme?


    1. Gregorian Chant
    a. propers (unison a cappella)
    b. ordinary (unison a cappella) (schola alone or with congregation?)
    2. Classical Polyphony (part music a cappella)
    a. propers?
    b. ordinary?
    c. motets?
    3. liturgical prayers (chants by the priest and people)
  • incantuincantu
    Posts: 989
    I would move "liturgical prayers" to number one. There's no reason we can't sing "The Lord be with you" / "And with your spirit" on one note. If we can't do that, any hope of singing the ordinary or proper is lost. I would also say that singing propers at all is more important than singing chant at all (i.e. I'd prefer a polyphonic setting of the proper to any old chant hymn).
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    Incantu:

    I believe Mr. Mahrt is trying to clarify an objective position of the actual priorities of SM in the liturgy. It is interesting to hear your preferences and I would invite everyones perspective also please!

    Mr. Mahrt:
    I am hoping to fully understand your perspective. Please enlighten us to your thinking.
  • incantuincantu
    Posts: 989
    francis, my response was to your proposed chart (which I now realize I misread, slightly) and not to Dr. Mahrt's explanation of the Church's paradigm. Although they also reflect my own preferences, my statements are based on the three degrees proposed in Musicam Sacram:


    29. The following belong to the first degree:
    (a) In the entrance rites: the greeting of the priest together with the reply of the people; the prayer.
    (b) In the Liturgy of the Word: the acclamations at the Gospel.
    (c) In the Eucharistic Liturgy: the prayer over the offerings; the preface with its dialogue and the Sanctus; the final doxology of the Canon, the Lord's Prayer with its introduction and embolism; the Pax Domini; the prayer after the Communion; the formulas of dismissal.

    30. The following belong to the second degree:

    (a) the Kyrie, Gloria and Agnus Dei;
    (b) the Creed;
    (c) the prayer of the faithful.

    31. The following belong to the third degree:

    (a) the songs at the Entrance and Communion processions;
    (b) the songs after the Lesson or Epistle;
    (c) the Alleluia before the Gospel;
    (d) the song at the Offertory;
    (e) the readings of Sacred Scripture, unless it seems more suitable to proclaim them without singing.


    As I said, I slightly misread the outline format of your chart. Still, I think the chart could look something more like this:

    2. the Ordinary
    a. chant
    b. polyphony
    c. other music
    3. the Propers
    a. chant
    b. polyphony
    c. other music
  • FWIW, this thread (esp. incantu's last post) reminds me of a blog post I made back in 2002.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    Very enlightening, Aristotle. What is your opinion of Incantu's list? And, what does YOUR ideal list look like today? The same as in your blog post?
  • Francis, incantu's list is a fleshed-out version of my own reading of Musicam Sacram, etc.; I believe it's the most logical interpretation of the Church's mind regarding music at Mass. That he came to it independently of me* has to say something.

    *At least I'm operating under the assumption that he parsed these things without reading my blog.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    Incantu:

    I was simply building my list from Dr. Mahrt's paradigm.


    Gregorian chant has principal place (principem locum—translated poorly as pride of place), classical polyphony comes second, other sacred music based upon texts from the scripture and the liturgy comes next.


    I probably misunderstood his statement about 'other sacred music' and was thinking his third category included liturgical texts and why I was trying to get better clarity. I believe we all agree that the simple chants of the dialogue between priest and people would be first, and are the easiest and most natural to include.

    A better way to make the list would be:

    1. Gregorian Chant
    a. liturgical prayers and responses
    b. propers
    c. ordinary
    2. Classical Polyphony
    a. propers
    b. ordinary
    c. motets
    3. Other Music (including hymns, instrumental and improvisation)

    Your list puts "other music" in number 1, and number 2, which is like putting an 'alius cantus aptus' in each category allowing questionable (secular, or non-sacred) musical forms. I would choose not to open that door for the reason that rock settings could find their way into the program just because they utilize the required texts. The preferred choices for one and two should be chant or polyphony of the highest quality. It then becomes clear that even in vernacular (OF) masses, the preferred music is that of the widely approved body of sacred music (which for the most part, happens to be in latin!)

    What is of course obvious to me (and many RC musicians) is that the hymn takes the last priority in the liturgy. The fact that we (CMAA) are assembling an excellent hymnal is a noble project, but I believe creating a resource that puts forward a correct understanding of Sacred Music in a pragmatic way that cites books, resources, etc. would be invaluable to educating seminarians, church volunteers, directors of music, etc. Even to the point of suggestions for each Sunday.

    Even excellent sites such as CanticaNova.com put hymns at the top of the list for liturgical planning which can subconsciously promote hymns as the first choice in sacred music. I think we muddy the waters when little things like this occur in our materials. CMAA's putting out a hymnal should come with a precursor to understanding the right role of the hymn in the liturgy.

    The old marketing addage by Weisman is invaluable to educating the public:

    "tell them what you're going to tell them. tell them. then tell them what you've told them." - Jerry Weisman, coach to CEO's, WSJ, 4/21/98


    It would also be great if there were a section explaining the route back from point A (where we are now i.e., four hymn sandwich) to point B (the most appropriate liturgical sacred music) and what steps are needed to integrate the end goal into a common parish music program. The title would be something akin to "A Path to Establishing a Program for Sacred Music in the Roman Catholic Liturgy".

    A book or resource such as this would not eliminate hymnody (and I guess that would have to include 'songs'), but simply outline where they would fit appropriately into an ideal liturgical model of sacred music.

    I think this may be what Noel was also thinking about. Noel?
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    It also occurs to me that the stipulations that Incantu highlights from Musicam Sacram do not speak to the issue of "styles" of music, which IMHO, is where most, if not all, confusion enters when it comes to appropriate versus non-appropriate music for the liturgy.

    Some styles gravitate towards melody and harmony (chant, polyphony and hymns), and some gravitate toward rhythm (rock, folk guitar and jazz). Some gravitate toward freedom from 'rules' or theory (modern classical, avante garde, much rock, jazz, etc.)

    It is not the guitar or the piano that brings issue, it is the type of music that they are capable of playing. They are what you might call 'gray instruments' because they are percussive instruments which are capable of introducing rhythms, styles and forms which are opposed to the very nature of sacred music. (Rhythm is the part of music that seems base, or in relating to the body or the immediate experience of a fleshly nature). Don't get me wrong. I like jazz and some rock, but IMHO, it is totally alien to sacred music and does not belong in the liturgy at all. In this reasoning, drums (particularly a trap set) are even more diametrically opposed. It is not so much the percussive nature of these particular instruments as much as it is the questionable styles (within the sacred liturgy) that they are able to promote. Electronic (guitars, bass guitars and synthesizers) also fall into this category as rhythmic pulse is the primary element in the employment and execution of their native musical styles. (however, the synthesizer has a greater propensity towards sacred music as it can be utilized like an organ or strings or winds.)

    ++++

    On another note:

    So much for that devilishly deceptive phrase, "De gustibus non est disputandum." Let's not forget that the devil knows (and uses) latin to his own advantage and more often than not, I have found people (usually priests) who use this phrase (mostly out of ignorance) to the desecration of what is truly sacred music.

    Can someone provide a good latin translation to my newly composed phrase below? It will be my comeback every time someone throws that dasterdly phrase at me in the future.

    "Your limited use of latin bespeaks your blindness to that which is truly of good taste"

    or this one from Star Trek would be even better...

    "Tell me, are you using a polimar based, nueral relay to transmit the organic nerve impulses to the central processors of my positronic net? If that is the case, how have you solved the problem of increased signal degradation inherent to organo-synthetic transmission?"
  • Dropping totally the use of the Latin names of the documents would make all of our discussions with non-believers easier for them to take.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    FNJ:

    Good point.

    And I suspect you are talking about "non-believers" as a certain sect of Catholics? (boy, that's a sad fact)

    Aristotle:

    We are constantly parsing your mind, and enjoy it immensely.
  • Francis: I appreciate the kind words :¬)

    One question about your updated list: do you mean to place the proper before the ordinary? Otherwise, it looks fine to me.

    I would also footnote Item 3 with par. 12 of Pope John Paul II's 2005 Chirograph on Sacred Music, which reads in part,

    With regard to compositions of liturgical music, I make my own the "general rule" that St Pius X formulated in these words: "The more closely a composition for church approaches in its movement, inspiration and savour the Gregorian melodic form, the more sacred and liturgical it becomes; and the more out of harmony it is with that supreme model, the less worthy it is of the temple"33. It is not, of course, a question of imitating Gregorian chant but rather of ensuring that new compositions are imbued with the same spirit that inspired and little by little came to shape it. Only an artist who is profoundly steeped in the sensus Ecclesiae can attempt to perceive and express in melody the truth of the Mystery that is celebrated in the Liturgy34.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    Aristotle:

    Yes, you are right. And that is a great footnote for the open ended portion!

    So, final list would look thus:

    1. Gregorian Chant
    a. liturgical prayers and responses
    b. ordinary
    c. propers
    2. Classical Polyphony
    a. ordinary
    b. proper
    c. motets
    3. Other Music (including hymns, instrumental and improvisation)*

    *With regard to compositions of liturgical music, I make my own the "general rule" that St Pius X formulated in these words: "The more closely a composition for church approaches in its movement, inspiration and savour the Gregorian melodic form, the more sacred and liturgical it becomes; and the more out of harmony it is with that supreme model, the less worthy it is of the temple"33. It is not, of course, a question of imitating Gregorian chant but rather of ensuring that new compositions are imbued with the same spirit that inspired and little by little came to shape it. Only an artist who is profoundly steeped in the sensus Ecclesiae can attempt to perceive and express in melody the truth of the Mystery that is celebrated in the Liturgy34.
    Par. 12, Chirograph on Sacred Music, JPII

    Is the chant always preferred above polyphony, or is there a basic rule about the proper usage of polyphony in place of the chant besides festal or more solemn liturgies?

    And to be absolutely clear about choice of language, the chant would always be in Latin, Ordinary and Propers and Other Music in Latin or another language. Yes?
  • Francis, thanks for the correction!

    As far as chant being preferred above polyphony, I don't think there's a basic rule. (I think the Church invokes the principle of subsidiarity here!)

    My own rules for using polyphony in place of chant — assuming that the proper texts are being used, such as Palestrina's offertories — are pragmatic in nature:

    • Can the acoustic space of the church do justice to the polyphony?
    • Can the choir handle the technical demands of the polyphony?
    • Can the choir pray the texts well in spite of these demands?
    • Can the choir director remain sane in teaching the polyphony to the choir?

    I don't list these in order of preference, by the way; these are pretty much non-negotiables as far as I'm concerned.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    Wow

    Our present acoustics are horrendous for choral music, but I would not let that inhibit the programming of good polyphony, however, I completely understand your point.

    As for sanity of the DM, I have no concern for that as I lost my mind years ago.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    If your choir performs the Inroit, is it during the procession? If yes, how often? What kind of feedback do you receive from the congregation? Does that influence your choice of music at times?
  • At my parish, I direct the all-volunteer mixed schola for the Extraordinary-Form Mass only. The Introit is offered every week, as are the other minor propers.* I receive generally positive feedback from the congregation, and carte blanche from the clergy. Sometimes a choir of homeschooled girls will sing a simple choral piece for Offertory, Communion, or both — they have a core repertoire of a few pieces from the St. Gregory Hymnal — but always after the Gregorian proper is sung.

    *Offertory and Communion. The Gradual and Alleluia are omitted during Low Masses. (Yes, that's right, we sing three of the propers at Low Mass; the Introit is sung without verse or Gloria Patri in these cases.)
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    Very nice. Reminds me of my days as a choirboy. Wish we had an EF here but doesn't look feasible at this time.
  • Francis, we employ the Introit as a prelude at this point. The Communio is sung as presribed.
    I have formally floated the schema to the pastor that the celebrant and entourage could enter the sanctuary with the customary ringing of the bell, at which point the schola would sing the Introit as the celebrant processes down the side aisle (left transept) to the narthex doors, at which point the Introit would cadence, and the Entrance (congregation hymn) would begin. I sold this via the Mahrt paradigm of "enfolding" the congregation figuratively as well as enabling them to "witness" a real procession, and then enjoin it in song.
    Not there yet, but I have an optimistic outlook.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    I am going to introduce the Richard Rice Advent Introits as preludes beginning the first Sunday in Advent. Currently, the communion antiphons are the only propers I use. Let's see how it goes. If the response is good, I will continue the introit/prelude after Advent.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    CharlesW
    Are you using Richard's Eng or Latin verses?
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    Charles in CenCa

    That is a good example of steps toward a model. Can you outline a typical liturgy (musically) that occurs in your parish? Sounds like you are carefully introducing changes in an effective manner.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    When I arrived to my new post last year, I had to build a music program from scratch starting with the disposal of the entire music library (95% of which was contemporary OCP material on copy paper). IMHO, this congregation had suffered the ultimate liturgical abuse in terms of music. The church was rebuilt six years ago. The existing choir loft was demolished and left out of the new architectural plans. The present pastor who came after the fact struggled to put in the Allen organ we have now. Nice transitional piece toward a real organ but the audio system was not installed correctly as it is very unbalanced depending upon where you are in the church. I created a choral library on the fly, started a schola and an elementary choir. This has been a traumatic year for the congregation. I reshaped the contemporary music group as they were singing almost exclusively Protestant praise songs. I was able to introduce the schola singing hymns from the PBC and the missa de angelis for festive liturgies and for holy week, but jeez, I feel like I was being charged with the task to institute a local reform of the reform in one fell swoop.

    Perhaps that is why I am in such a quandry about what steps to take to continue moving the program forward. This has been a great challenge akin to like being drafted as a Captain into a liturgical MASH unit.

    I could not have even considered doing any of this without the uncompromised backing of the pastor and he took a lot on the chin to see it through. He is to be commended. Please keep us all in your prayers.
  • Basically, Francis, at the "Schola Mass"-
    Introit (either Rice SCG or Ford AG)
    Entrance Hymn
    Confiteor/Kyrie/Gloria (currently Missa Oecumenica, R. Proulx/C.Culbreth arr.)
    R&A Psalm
    Mode VI "Alleluia" chanted
    Credo (recited)
    Offertory hymn, occasional Offertorio proper. That will officially change at Advent w/ Richard's polyphonic settings.
    Acclamations: Missa Oecumenica
    Pater noster/Snow: NOT SUNG by order of the pastor, despite many "chats."
    Agnus Dei: either Missa Oecumenica or chanted
    Communio: (either Rice Latin Communio v/Latin vs., Rice SCG or Ford AG)
    Communion hymn (choir receives)
    Choral Motet
    Generally-concluding hymn, but lately have been using more organ postludes

    Both pastor and senior parochial vicar chant the collects (NO) well. Another associated chants collects, but not the preface unless it's a festal, he does chant the institution (?!?) instead.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Francis, Richard Rice has composed a collection of Advent Introits in English, that CanticaNOVA publishes. I bought enough copies for the choir. For communion, I am using the Simple Choral Gradual antiphons.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    CharlesW

    ah.... I misread your post and was thinking You use RR communion propers. Thanks.
  • SSPX
    Posts: 2
    Charles in CenCA, was it difficult to get permission from OCP to make your new arrangement from Missa Oecumenica? Please let me know if it was difficult to approach them and if they charge an arm and a leg for allowing modifications.
  • SSPX,
    Mr. Proulx did not "compose" a Gloria for "Oecumenica." My setting of that is, to the best of my understanding, my IP.
    I wish that OCP had more ganas to have let it take root in MI/BB for more than the two years post 2000 it was afforded.
    But I've seen that before, with Schiavone's "Mass of the Holy Family" and Proulx's "Responsorial Mass."
    The lovely aspect of Oecumenica is that is compliments so much of what Richard Rice has done with SCG, and could even be said to be an inheritor of Gouzes' noble-simplicity efforts in the 80"s.
    Regarding OCP's business policies, I am extremely familiar with certain aspects, and woefully left ignorant in others, as a published arranger for them, and yet a rejected composer. No sour grapes to be trampled here.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    Charles

    Don't worry about rejections. I have saved every single rejection letter like flowers pressed in a book. In fact, I should probably publish them in miniature on the back of all my octavos and music publications.