Offertorium
  • Darcy
    Posts: 73
    Hello,

    We're still doing mainly the 4-hymn thing at my parish, although it seems the plan for Lent is to observe silence during the offertory. I asked why we couldn't sing the offertory chant instead of being silent, and offered to sing it myself. My offer was accepted. So now the question, is the offertorium supposed to have verses with it, just like the communio? If so, since there is not (yet) a handy resource compiled for that, what verses would one sing? How do you choose? How do you know which psalm tone to use?

    Thanks for your help!

    In Christ
    Darcy
  • gregpgregp
    Posts: 632
    Darcy, we sang "Parce Domine" toady at the offertory, a capella, with the refrain in Latin and the verses in English. Three of us did the verses because they are not in OCP's Missal. As sort of an all-around compromise ("don't sing too much Latin"), it worked very well. It certainly was a much different feel in the church from choir, organ, and whatever PIPs join in.
  • Darcy
    Posts: 73
    And now I see the post below on the Offertoriale... interesting, but not sure if I can get my hands on one in time. So, I guess my question still stands. Maybe if you have a copy of the Offertoriale you could share what the versicles included there are? Thanks again!
  • Darcy
    Posts: 73
    Hi gregp,

    Parce Domine would be nice during offertory, better than silence in my opinion - if we were going to have silence instead of music for any part of the Mass, I think I would have rather had it at the recessional. At any rate, I am glad for the opportunity to learn the offertory chants (I will get to sing them every other week, since the choir is singing on the opposite weeks and will have a motet during offertory - I guess the plan to have silence during offertory only applied when the choir wasn't scheduled to sing). So it is really the offetorium for the 3rd and 5th weeks of Lent I'm looking for verses for.

    Darcy
  • incantuincantu
    Posts: 989
    I sang the Offertory (Scapulis) in English from The American Gradual and chanted two verses (Ps. 91) to a psalm tone (Mode 8) to make it a little longer.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    The offertory typically does not have verses, since the chant is quite long. However, one may add verses if it is not sufficiently long.

    My suggestion would be, if you want verses, take the verses from the source psalm, eg Psalm 91 for last Sunday. I'm pretty sure all the offertories are from the psalms, so that shouldn't be a problem.
  • Darcy
    Posts: 73
    I wanted to follow up on this. I wound up ordering the Offertoriale Triplex, and we had time to sing the refrain and one verse the day I used it. I am sure my reading of it wasn't perfect, but there wasn't anyone there who would know better anyway... it got good reviews. I found the verse to be very beautiful, though it certainly was trickier than the refrain.
  • David AndrewDavid Andrew
    Posts: 1,206
    According to the Graduale Simplex, Ps. 91 with its antiphon is the offertory for this Sunday (Laetare) and Ps. 21 with its antiphon is for the fifth Sunday.

    If your parish is still doing the "hymn sandwich" I presume it's an OF parish. Perhaps these same antiphons and psalm verses from By Flowing Waters might be a reasonable place to start.

    Of course, since it's just you chanting, you could go "whole hog" and sing the offertory verse from the Gregorian Missal, if you can lay your hands on one.
  • Darcy
    Posts: 73
    It is an OF parish making baby steps away from the hymn sandwich, or so I hope. I recruited a few other women to sing the refrain of the chant with me, and I did the offetoriale "fancy" verse on my own. We had Father Skeris do a workshop here last summer, and it really helped give some of our singers the courage and willingness to learn to read neumes. It is a start. (I haven't seen By Flowing Waters yet... at least I don't think so. Our choir director has some chants that were put into modern notation by Proulx. But I think they are still Latin.) I do have the Gregorian Missal, but it didn't have any suggestions for a verse to go with the offetory. The Triplex is great that way, a challenge though.
  • Jevoro
    Posts: 108
    There is the Offertoriale triplex (edited by Solesmes) for the long versions of offertories (they all had prolifique melismated verses). Psalmodiate the versions would be a preconciliar solution. With our celebrator, i have just the time to sing the normal offertory of the Graduale romanum and to cantilate a french translation.
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