Westminster Hymnal - Ed. 1952
  • Does anyone know the 1952 edition of the Westminster Catholic Hymnal from the UK? Does anyone have a pdf file of this extremely fine hymnal? With all the talk about quality Catholic hymnody, I would strongly suggest that the CMAA membership should seek out and know this fine hymnal. Unfortunately, it is currently out of print. I am fortunate to have a copy and I value it highly.
  • hmm, I think this might be the one Scott Turkington uses in his parish.
  • It is a treasure. I believe some of it is still under copyright. Sir R. R. Terry's hymnal calls to remembrance the great man himself. Unfortunately, my favourite tunes by Terry remain under copyright. I believe there was a reprint of it in recent years.
  • How tragic for Terry's legacy. I'm going through this book on the history of the Folk music thing in Catholic circles. No question that the ditto machine was the key and the reason that it displaced what came before was because the music was not copyright protected - this is one major factor, in any case. ubiquity requires freedom.
  • The reprint edition by Roman Catholic Books (Fort Collins, CO) appears to be out of print.
    There are a few copies on Amazon.
  • oh wait, I think I have that. Music on the left, words on the right?
  • Yes, as is the custom in traditional English hymnals.
  • While Terry's tunes are locked in copyrights for the most part, there are a wonderful body of German Catholic tunes from before the Reformation that Joseph Mohr gathered and made available to the Church. I very rarely see these tunes used or the original tunes by Josef Mohr.

    There is a wonderful setting in the St. Piux X Hymnal of Fr. Faber's "Hail, holy Joseph, hail!" to a tune by Josef Mohr. It is in the PD.
  • As I grew up in some wonderfully good Anglo-Catholic Victorian style Men and Boy Choirs, became a choirmaster and organist for some great Traditional Latin Masses, I search and amassed a great collection of hymnals, missals and literature that now literally fills a room 20 x 15 from floor upwards. Much of the choral music I collected is not even copyrighted and some from famous church musician before 1930. I especially cherish some wonderful hymns and motets in manuscript from Dupre, Durufle, Pietro Yon and Josef Jongen. I gleaned through hundreds of hymnals as well. When I was a music director at an Anglican Use parish with nine choirs and literally hundreds of boys and girls singing 15 masses a week at top professional levels, I was particular happy when I came across the Westminster Hymnal. Amazingly, the kids loved much in that hymnal too! When asked why, they responded that it was pretty good music and poetry. I cherish my copy!
  • Ken, you are very blessed to have such a collection and library. From my own sad experience, do try to scan as much of it as possible and put it on Cds or DVDs. Keep mutliple copies in different locations. That way it may survive even if the physical copies should, God forbid, be destroyed or damaged.

    I am very interested in unpublished hymn tunes and unpublished Anglican Chant tunes. If you click on my name you will soon see my e-mail address. I have some other questions that I would like to ask apart from this forum, and would be so very pleased to hear from you. Thank you.
  • Vincent -
    Have you an extra copy of Songs of Syon?
    Also, if available, I should like an extra copy of Sir Sydney Nicholson's A Plainsong Hymn Book (1932, under the aegis of Hymns A&M.) Also there is a smaller, pew edition of the same which one would like to find. It is a remarkably rich book of English hymns and translated Latin hymns. It even has 'Let All Mortal Flesh' to a very fitting and gracefully neumatic mode I melody. There might, indeed, be a number of hymns from here that would be suitable for the proposed PBEH. I would wager that many are public doman (the tunes certainly are). Unfortunately, I am not technologically advanced enough to send them out over the internet.

    You may be interested to know that I just today ordered the Egerton Ms 3307 from the Anglican Bibliopole!
  • Jackson, I do not have an extra copy of 'Songs of Syon', but I would be happy to make loan of mine to you. My father and I intend to be at Walsingham for the Solemn High Mass on Sunday to which the parish's patronal feast day is moved this year. Should I not make it, I would send it with my father for you.

    I had 'A Plainsong Hymn Book' but it perished in the flood waters of Hurricane Ike. It is possible that it may be on the internet. I recall the tune for 'Let All Mortal Flesh' which is indeed graceful and to my mind perfect for a Western Rite use of the Cherubikon from the Divine Liturgy of S. James. Years ago I remember singing it at S. Clement's in Philadelphia.

    On a related note, there is a website by the name 'Occidentalis' and there is a new Sarum Psalter page that appears to be drawn from various sources such as the Plainsong Hymnal and the Manual of Plainsong. The settings are in PDF format for ease of download and use. Likewise there is no fee. A most interesting page of liturgical rites et. al. serves as the the port of departure from which one may also find the new Sarum Psalter of that website.

    The Anglican Bilbiopole is such a wonderful source, and I am most interested in this latest acquisition of yours!
  • In addition to the Westminster Hymnal - 1952, I am particularly fond of the "Green" English Hymnal for its plainsong chant resources, and the Songs and Syon Hymnal. In the SOS Hymnal there is a plainsong chant I found, when I was a kid, called the "Rosy Sequence." I don't know its history but I have loved and treasured it ever since. There is a particularly nice old Anglican Hymnal in which a good amount of Milton's texts are set to music (although I can't recall the name of that hymnal - sorry).
  • Is the 'Rosy Sequence' actually a sequence? To what day would it be proper? What is it about?
  • G
    Posts: 1,397
    Is the 'Rosy Sequence' actually a sequence? To what day would it be proper? What is it about?


    I am open to correction, but I thought it was simply the name of a tune, (usually used for Jesu Dulcis Memoria, for the Feast of the Holy Name)

    Save the Liturgy, Save the World
  • The 'Rosy Sequence' refers to a text as well as to a tune. The text comes from the Cistercians and was attributed to St. Bernard of Clairvaux. It celebrates the Holy Name of Jesus and in form is not actually a sequence but was used as one with the rise of devotion to the Holy Name through the efforts of St. Bernardino of Sienna. And so the various rites that arose around devotion to the Holy Name would employ this text as a sequence in the Liturgy.

    The traditional tune is called 'Rosy Sequence' and is one of my very favourites as well. The Holy Name Societies once made great use of both text and tune, and likewise in similar counterparts in the Church of England. The other claim for the text was that it was written by an unknown Englishman who was Cistercian.
  • THANK YOU!!!! Forgive me for saying this, but I think its especially beautiful when sung accompanied by a harp with an extremely soft strings on the organ playing just chords. If anyone has their Songs of Syon Hymnal at hand, maybe you would consider placing the text here for anyone interested to read or perhaps a pdf of the actual music and text if its not copyrighted.
  • In 'Songs of Praise Enlarged' (which copy is right beside me) I find the Rosy Sequence included at Number 548 with translation by J.M. Neale. There is an Oxford Univerity Press copyright on the harmonisation. But the melody is PD (as is the text).
  • We have been re-harmonizing as needed throughout the process, so this may well be a welcome addition.
  • Noel, it would be wonderful to have it in PBEH. Do you have Songs of Praise Enlarged (Dearmer, RVW & Martin Shaw)?

    For those who don't know it, the Rosy Sequence is found in the Sarum Gradual of 1527. The text is a Cento from 'Dulcis Jesu Memoria' translation by JM Neale but this from 'Songs of Praise (Enlarged)' appears a bit altered from what I remembered... nonetheless, here it is:

    Jesu! the very though is sweet!
    In that dear name all heart-joys meet;
    But sweeter than the honey far
    The glimpses of his presence are.

    2 No word is sung more sweet than this:
    No name is heard more full of bliss:
    No thought brings sweeter comfort nigh,
    Than Jesus, Son of God most high.

    3 Jesus, the hope of souls forlorn,
    How good to them for sin that mourn;
    To them that seek thee, O how kind;
    But what art thou to them that find?

    4 Jesus, thou sweetness, pure and blest,
    Truth's fountain, light of souls distrest,
    Surpassing all that heart requires,
    Exceeding all that soul desires!

    5 No tongue of mortal can express,
    No letters write its blessedness:
    Alone who hath thee in his heart
    Knows, love of Jesus, what thou art.

    6 I seek for Jesus in repose,
    Where round my heart the shadows close;
    Abroad, and when I shut the door,
    I long for Jesus evermore.

    7 As Mary in the morning gloom
    Sought out her Master at the tomb,
    So now, with love's most earnest cry,
    I seek with heart and not with eye.

    8 Jesu, to God the Father gone,
    Is seated on the heavenly throne;
    My heart hath also passed from me,
    That where he is there it may be.

    9 We follow Jesus now, and raise
    The voice of prayer, the hymn of praise,
    That he at last may make us meet
    With him to gain the heavenly seat.

    Also, the Rev. Dr. Steve Benner, on the Oremus website, provides this compilation of the text from JM Neale:

    Jesus! the very thought is sweet;
    in that dear name all heart-joys meet;
    but O, than honey sweeter far
    the glimpses of his presence are.

    No word is sung more sweet than this,
    no sound is heard more full of bliss,
    no thought brings sweeter comfort nigh,
    than Jesus, Son of God most high.

    Jesus, the hope of souls forlorn,
    how good to them for sin that mourn!
    To them that seek the, O how kind!
    But what art thou to them that find?

    No tongue of mortal can express,
    no pen can write, the blessedness:
    he only who hath proved it knows
    what bliss from love of Jesus flows.

    O Jesus, King of wondrous might!
    O Victor, glorious from the fight!
    Sweetness that may not be expressed,
    and altogether loveliest!

    Abide with us, O Lord, today,
    fulfill us with thy grace, we pray;
    and with thine own true sweetness feed
    our souls from sin and darkness freed.

    Later, I will search for Neale's original translation of the text. Perhaps there I will find the verses I recall from childhood.
  • A reminder: The "Nova Organi Harmonia" is available for free download, and is PD. There are multiple, beautiful accompaniments to Office Hymns therein. While it might take a bit more paper, they had a wonderful way of doing things. Office hymns usually have three different accompaniments that the verses rotate through. And Sequences are through-composed, with every verse being just a bit different. The "Dies irae" is, literally, to die for!
  • I am arriving a bit late for your discussion about "The Westminster Hymnal" but i thought you would like to know that I have just downloaded a pdf format file of the complete hymnal from http://openlibrary.org/books/OL23359338M/The_Westminster_hymnal?v=7 Hope this helps best regards Mike Ellis