PBEH: Alpha Release
  • Jeffrey TuckerJeffrey Tucker
    Posts: 3,624
    Here is what our hymn people have done so far. Already this provides a remarkable array of free hymns that can be used right away. In fact, in my own parish, we already used one (You Are The Way). I'm so excited about this. Obviously there is more to be done. The writers/composers birth and death on each one, more data insofar as it is available on each, and only about 75% are currently linked to a PDF.

    We could use more help. Comments and corrections can be made on the reporting spreadsheet.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,500
    Brilliant!
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    First hymn, 2nd verse, last word: http://musicasacra.com/books/hymns/pbeh_abide_with_us.pdf "...to living faith be stir -"
  • Adam Bartlett
    Posts: 533
    Great start to a great project. Very exciting!
  • jhoffman
    Posts: 29
    Bravo!!!!!!!

    Will there be a pdf file that will contain the text and melody alone?

    Bravo!!!!!!!
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    Gavin thanks for posting, that reminds me.

    Strict policy is outlined on the hymns page. All corrections needed must be posted to the people who are doing the work directly. This is covered in the information at the top of the list.

    Your editorial eyes, friends, are welcomed, but let's keep the dirty laundry of my mistakes off the list, please.

    Thanks.

    PS: Many Catholics read music. There is absolutely no intention of producing this hymnal without full hamonization for every hymn and organ accompaniment for those that are in unison.

    You should be able to pick up any PBEH in the world and be able to use it. There is no need for accompaniment versions, for having one version for the choir, another for the organist, another for the congregation that reads music, another for the ones who do not read music...and one for hte guitar group. This is a hymnal of force and strength. It stands on its own, it does not need to be marketed by appealing to one group or another.

    It's the Model-T of hymnals. An color at all as long as it is black.
  • incantuincantu
    Posts: 989
    The first hymn I clicked on was "Holy God." I was hoping there would be no repeat, and that the verse "Lo the apostolic train..." would be included. But, alas! I mention this not to nit-pick, but to show just how easy it will be to nit-pick. Too easy! So I think we should approach this valuable resource with an attitude of acceptance, except of course in the case of egregious errors.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    incantu.

    Very, very good point.

    I will create a google docs for suggestions and comments for us to work from. The versions that we are using come from a very wide selection of sources. Many hymns, going back to the originals, have 7 or more verses....so if you have any comments they would most definitely help. Thank you.
  • jhoffman
    Posts: 29
    Noel,

    I think it's great to have only one book for the hymnal. What I hope will be available online is a melody with text to reproduce in worship aids.

    Thanks for all your work.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    In theory, anyone could volunteer to take on that project, maybe starting with a Finale file from Noel, and cutting out the accompaniment or alto-tenor-bass lines; and adjusting the page size also.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    Wonderful and excellent! I could volunteer some new hymns if there is time.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    Eventually all works will be up as Finale files (this is already started) and in other forms so that yes, you may create even part books if you like!

    Or keep the bass line and add figures.

    That sounds outlandish, but at the same time, neat.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    And Francis, and others, new hymns are definitely a goal of this project, submit, submit, submit...the response so far has been...restrained.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    The comment page is working well, thanks for all involved.

    A suggestion: If you have a verse that you think should be added, submit the entire verse and...if want quick attention to it, hyphenate it as it is sung:

    "Christ the Lord is ris'n to-day,"

    If you follow the custom of using the ' and the -, it is very easy for us to drop the new verse in. The faster the process, the quicker it will get done.

    We can use volunteers to do nothing but type hymn words with hyphenated for the database, hymns that are not already in the collection.

    This means that you can, if you like pull the verses out of the file yourself and use just the ones you want when you print the hymns. And you may then also choose any tune that fits.

    You would need a version of Finale to do this, can someone verify that this process can be done with Notepad, please, which costs $10?
  • IanWIanW
    Posts: 756
    Wonderful work. Are you after PDF contributions, or must they be in Finale format? Quite a few of us will have Sibelius.

    I was unable to edit the error spreadsheet, even though I had logged in to my Google account, and so could not report that "Soul of my Saviour (A)" is actually a copy of "The Eternal Gifts of Christ the King".

    ps sorry if I missed instructions that would have made this comment redundant.
  • michaelop
    Posts: 1
    This looks like a great project.

    I am wondering if, in the final printed edition, there will also be settings of the Ordinary of the Mass - or will this book only contain hymns?

    Thanks for your work.
  • Jeffrey TuckerJeffrey Tucker
    Posts: 3,624
    only English hymns. Ordinaries we already distribute online and we will make all those live as soon as ICEL says it is ok.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    Finale format. We intend to have a very neat and clean template so that any hymn can be pulled out and used, so that rules out making it cross platform. Also, people can use Notepad, which is $9.95...does Sib offer something like this?

    Supposedly a Dolet permits the transfer back and forth with Sib, but I have not seen this. The core of this project when it started 3 weeks ago, about 125 hymns, was already in Finale format, hence the decision.

    Also, that link has been fixed. Thanks. As people become more familiar with the project, they will find comments and errors links to use on the page.
  • Bruce E. Ford
    Posts: 429
    I am shocked to see "Bread of the world, in mercy broken" included in this collection. The theology expressed in the second verse strikes me as unambiguously Zwinglian.

    In 1968 I took an organist's position in a small Anglo-Catholic parish. The "letter of agreement" that I received from the priest said, "The choice of hymns is yours; but we do not sing Hymn #196 at St. James." ("Bread of the world..." was Hymn #196 in THE HYMNAL 1940, the Episcopal hymnal then in use.)
  • Bruce E. Ford
    Posts: 429
    How are tunes being evaluated for inclusion in this hymnal?

    I don't think "Stanfield," the tune used for "Sweet sacrament divine," is a better musical composition than most of the liturgico-pop tunes in vogue today that CMAA members rightly deride. It sounds like one of those "sweet songs" popular during the gay nineties.

    The text, "Sweet sacrament..." also strikes me as maudlin and insubstantial.
    Thanked by 1MarkB
  • Jeffrey TuckerJeffrey Tucker
    Posts: 3,624
    For now we are just posting what we can without any tribunals. that stage will come later.
  • Adam Bartlett
    Posts: 533
    Re: "Finale format..."

    The cross-platform file type is MusicXML. Finale natively exports to XML with the click of a mouse. Sibelius can do the same with the Dolet plug-in which costs around $100. XML preserves all of the content in a music score, but not styles, etc. This is easily overcome by Sibelius users as they can apply a "house style" to the score with one click.

    It seems that production for this project can only be done in Finale unless Sibelius users submit via XML. I very sincerely hope that the database will include XML files of the scores so that Sibelius users work with the published scores in their preferred platform.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    XML is lovely but unfortunately all kinds of formatting is lost in the translation, and you know what a dud that movie was.

    And Bruce, there is some really bad music that Catholics have loved over the years, I think we all agree.

    Bread of...the Malcolm Archer anthem is "a token" while the original is "the token" so that helps it a bit, unless there is another problem.
  • Adam Bartlett
    Posts: 533
    "XML is lovely but unfortunately all kinds of formatting is lost in the translation, and you know what a dud that movie was."

    As a Sibelius user I would love to have access to a usable source for all of the PBEH hymns. All I have to do is open the XML file and apply my preferred Sibelius "house style" and formatting is taken care of. If exporting files to XML is as easy as I think that it is in Finale (and perhaps this could be done in one "batch" sweep) I don't see why you wouldn't want to "open the source" to as broad a demographic as possible. It would certainly be a huge plus to my music program!
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    Or you could spend $9.95 on Notepad and save us a lot of work!
  • Adam Bartlett
    Posts: 533
    Noel,

    Does Notepad export to XML? If not, what you're asking is for Sib users to switch platforms.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    According to the product website, it does export and import XML.
  • priorstf
    Posts: 460
    Adam - if you see hymns you'd like converted just sent them to me. I do have Finale Print Music that lets me export to XML. I'll get them right back to you.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    I would wager money that the reason new hymns are not submitted is because they go to the Commons.
  • vincentuher
    Posts: 134
    The idea that my texts or my tunes would become part of the Commons is what has drawn me to this project. Perhaps the Creative Commons copyrighting possibilities are not well understood.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    If your hymn is sent off to Hope and they buy it it is theirs and it goes in a file. It may or may not appear in a hymnal. If it does not, there is nothing you can do.

    If it goes in a hymnal and people like it, they are going to steal it rather than buying the hymnal it is in. So you are going to have pirated copies all over with your information on the pirated copy often left off.

    If, however, you add it to our list under Creative Commons 3.0 people may take it, share it, copy it and do anything except sell it. They cannot print a sell a hymnal with your hymnal in it without our permission. That's the 3.0 provision.

    Now suddenly your hymn is out there being shared, people like it it gets popular and one of the bug guys wants it in a hymnal. What did that cost you?

    Or it could be locked in a file at ABC music publishing. Kept dark, like a mushroom.

    The PBC is the best example. You can download it for free. So that mean NO ONE is going to buy the book, right?

    What's the latest count of sales of people who ARE BUYING A FREE BOOK?
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    It would be grand if priorstf would be willing to convert all the Finale files to XML and post them on the site, once they are up for access.

    We are not ready to do this ourselves because we are building the hymnal and now correcting existing files. To attempt to build the XML, text and other files right now would bog the project down.
  • Carl DCarl D
    Posts: 992
    I would like to offer my tremendous support for the work that has been done thus far on the PBEH. I know that it feels like you're being battered from every front, guys, but it's important to know that this is a ground-breaking work and contribution to the cause of Sacred Music.

    I pray that all of us will continue to support you in this work, and offer up our constructive contributions with the spirit of love and helpfulness. Sure, we may each have observations and even quibbles with the finer points, but this pales in comparison to the magnitude of the overall work.

    My acclaim to all involved, and never let us doubt that this will change the world, despite all the faults and failings that us mortals might include in the first edition. We all know that it's impossible for rev 1.0 of ANYthing to be perfect; even God took 6 days. ;-)
  • orourkebr
    Posts: 57
    THANK YOU EVERYONE WHO IS WORKING ON THIS!
  • Jeffrey TuckerJeffrey Tucker
    Posts: 3,624
    thank you for the support! yes, the PBC has sold 8,000 copies. There are no controlled experiments in a world of forward motion and ceaseless change, but I would be willing to wager that we never would have sold 1000 had it not been free online.

    As for new hymns, we've yet to actually solicit any outside this forum. time will come.
  • marajoymarajoy
    Posts: 781
    I'm a huge fan of this project. But I'm not sure I like quite the huge spectrum of hymn tunes (many of which I am unfamiliar with.) Will there at least be a metrical index? (I'm asking this now b/c I notice that not all of the hymns even have the meter written next to the tune name or anywhere else.)
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    The best part of this forum is the ability to edit your messages!

    Ask >•<
  • marajoymarajoy
    Posts: 781
    I just asked a yes or no question.
  • music123
    Posts: 100
    Thank you, everyone who is working on this project. It will be a great gift for the Church!
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,577
    Will there be an index like
    Barlow and Morgenstern "A dictionary of musical themes" ?
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    This is a guess on my part: the correct answer to virtually all questions of the form "Will the hymnal include feature X?" is probably "It hasn't been decided for sure yet."

    After all, the PBEH project is only in its information- and hymn-gathering phase. Screening the hymns comes later.

    This is probably a good time to start collecting thoughts about what features the book should include. There should be a process about screening the feature requests too.

    At my own initiative, I've created a spreadsheet for tracking feature requests. Anyone may edit it.

    If you want the hymnal to have a certain feature, consider (ahem!) volunteering to create it.

    I don't know whether the editors have even defined a decision-making process yet for the book's features.

    Here's one way to organize them:
    1. features to be included in the printed book;
    2. "official" supplementary material from the PBEH project (on-line downloadable documents);
    3. "unofficial" supplementary material contributed by other talented and erudite persons interested in the project: these are also on-line downloadable documents.


    Features in all these categories will be of value to people, but the editors will have to make distinctions among them. The book's size and cost limitations will affect what features go into print. For the downloadable features, editors could select some as "official" and leave some as "unofficial", based on the availability of volunteers and the quality of work produced.

    There should also be some consideration for ongoing development of the project: collecting additional hymns over time, adding more companion material. offering downloadable errata lists,
  • janetgorbitzjanetgorbitz
    Posts: 964
    I am so looking forward to seeing this project come to fruition. I am quietly promoting it among my acquaintances even now... "an English hymnal devoid of heretical hymns..."
  • G
    Posts: 1,397
    Will there be an index like
    Barlow and Morgenstern "A dictionary of musical themes" ?


    That would be sooooo useful for when parishioners ask, "Why don't we ever sing THAT song?.... you know, the one about that thing?... where the tune goes along all like this and then it sounds different and then it's the same again but not quite? You know the one, why don't you ever play that? It goes [imagine monotone here] nah -na-na-nah-nah-naaah!"
    (And it could be anything from REPTON to PANGE LINGUA to WAYFARIN' STRANGER.)

    Save the Liturgy, Save the World!
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    "Why don't we ever sing THAT song?.... you know, the one about that thing?... where the tune goes along all like this and then it sounds different and then it's the same again but not quite? You know the one, why don't you ever play that? It goes [imagine monotone here] nah -na-na-nah-nah-naaah!"

    I know that song! ;-)

    All kidding aside, I am excited about the hymnal. My pastor won't buy a new one until the revised translations are out. The timing could be right on this one - at least, that's what I am hoping.
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