New hymn idea based on the "Cherubic Hymn"
  • Maureen
    Posts: 679
    I'm not sure this is a good idea, as singing something based on an Ordinary of another Rite's form of Mass seems... presumptuous. But I thought that one could versify it a little and alter it to be applicable more to Latin Rite choir situations, and not be hideously inappropriate. It might be a nice choir devotional idea, anyway.

    Anyway, here's what I came up with:

    Oh, we who mystically
    Stand for the Cherubim,
    And sing the Seraphs' hymn
    To the Holy Trinity,
    Oh, let us lay down strife,
    And all the cares of life,

    So that we may be free
    to greet the mighty King
    of all and everything,
    As He comes invisibly
    With all His heav'nly court,
    His army and escort.

    Although we cannot see
    And hear that mighty song
    As angels sing along
    And the saints on bended knee,
    Oh, it is good to be
    Here with His Majesty!
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,229
    The text is of the form 66.67.66 ; if it were 66.66.66, then it could be set to "Old Hundred Twentieth" ("Hail to the Lord who comes") or "Laudes Domini" ("When morning gilds the skies"). May I suggest an alteration?

    Oh, we who mystically
    Stand for the Cherubim,
    And sing the Seraphs' hymn
    Unto the Trinity,
    Oh, let us lay down strife,
    And all the cares of life,

    So that we may be free
    to greet the mighty King
    of all and everything,
    Who comes invisibly
    With all His heav'nly court,
    His army and escort.

    Although we cannot see
    And hear that mighty song
    As angels sing along
    And saints on bended knee,
    Oh, it is good to be
    Here with His Majesty!


    By the way, at least one well-known hymn, "Let all mortal flesh keep silence", is derived from the Byzantine liturgy, being based on a Holy Saturday text.
  • rwprof
    Posts: 25
    The translation is a bit odd in several places. But why re-invent the wheel? There are surely hundreds of settings of the Cherbikon to be found online. See my liturgical music page for sites to start looking. All will be melismatic and relatively slow (the Cherubikon covers a fairly long stretch of time in the Liturgy).
  • G
    Posts: 1,401
    "But why re-invent the wheel?"

    I think the idea was for a "foursquare" syllabic metric hymn, which, for good or ill, are more palatable to many congregations.

    (Save the Liturgy, Save the World)
  • rwprof
    Posts: 25
    Yes, but the Cherubikon is a hymn, not chant. There are plenty of polyphonic, metered settings.
  • G
    Posts: 1,401
    I know and have sung a few, (Archanglesky, Rachmaninoff,) and when I attended Byzantine Divine Liturgy quickly picked up the congregational chant they used, but I don't know a metric setting that would be suitable for congregational singing - can you suggest one. rwprof?

    (Save the Liturgy, Save the World)
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,229
    I'm wondering about the draft above: it doesn't yet include some important ideas from the original text. However, with the help of a random number generator, this came out. Still needs work.


    Let us who mystically
    Stand for the Cherubim
    Sing to the Trinity
    the Seraphs' sacred hymn:
    thrice-holy is their song,
    through endless ages long.

    Lay down all earthly care,
    All trouble and all strife;
    Welcome the King who comes,
    Creator of all life,
    As hosts invisibly
    Escort his majesty.
  • Maureen
    Posts: 679
    Re: why?

    Well, I did say I was contemplating it as a hymn for Latin Rite Catholics, not as a cherubikon, and not as using an existing cherubikon as a motet. So it has to be quite a bit longer to be long enough for Latin Rite Catholics to sing.

    Of course, the real reason is, "I stared at the translation for long enough for the Versification Impulse Engine to kick on. After an hour or so of that working away, there's nothing else to do but inflict it on other people -- or shudder and shove it back into the Box of Bad Lyrics to ripen or rot."

    It's really not as if one has a lot of choice about these things; at least, I don't. Even if I know it's a horrible idea for a song, it's quicker just to write it than to try to forget it. And heck, the Cherubic Hymn is awesome. Who wouldn't want to take a stab at it?

    Re: "Let All Mortal Flesh Keep Silence" --

    Yes, that made me feel quite a bit better.

    Re: Chonak's stab at it --

    Ooh, nice. Much smoother poetry.
  • rwprof
    Posts: 25
    The problem with the Cherubikon and congregational singing is that arrangements tend to be so melismatic (longer? it takes FOREVER to sing the Cherubikon as written!) Familiarity helps, so doing the same one all the time is a good idea.

    There's the Bortniansky, which is pretty easy.
    http://stseraphim.org/files/music/1-Cherubim-Bortniansky5.pdf

    There's also the Smolensky, which is also pretty easy (easy being good for congregational participation).
    http://stseraphim.org/files/music/8-Cherubim-Streletskaya.pdf

    We do the "Greek" chant, which ordinarily would not be good at all for congregational participation because it's highly chromatic and melismatic, but we do it at every liturgy, so the congregation knows it.
  • JamJam
    Posts: 636
    Seeing the Cherubic Hymn rewritten into hymn-form with meter and rhyme seems a little blasphemous to me (not blasphemous, another word I can't think of; but still). It's like trying to write an icon with crayon or something. It just doesn't sit right with me, and I think with rwprof it's the same and that's why he's pushing the real thing. I'm with him: don't settle; just go for the real thing. It's awesome and not that hard. I think people really underestimate the typical Roman Catholic parish (and the ability of the people to learn anything--with enough repetition, they'll get it, they'll get it!)

    Then again, I do really like "Let All Mortal Flesh Keep Silence" as a Catholic hymn, because the theological content is so much better and deeper than most hymns, and the tune is pretty cool. Then again, I knew it as a hymn first so maybe it's like nostalgia or something.
  • Mr. Z
    Posts: 159
    Though endless ages long -?



    How about

    Through age to age prolong.

    Or

    Who age to age prolong.

    Or

    Whilst age to age prolong.
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