How common is a Sung 6:00 am Christmas Day Mass, particularly in the EF?
  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 606
    As far as I know, my parish’s Latin Mass community has never had a 6:00 am sung Mass. They have a sung midnight Mass and a sing Christmas Day Mass later in the day, but never at 6:00 am.

    I heard from one of my fellow choir members yesterday that he was asked to help sing for the 6:00 am Christmas Day Mass.

    Is this actually a thing in other Latin Mass communities, or is mine just going into extremes with piety and worship? I had to sit through 90 minute low Mass yesterday to make my Sunday obligation and was almost late to dress rehearsal. It didn’t used to be like this.
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,193
    The Lux Fulgebit mass is not common. They've done it (and recorded the Proper) at St. Mary Norwalk. I'm a morning person, and it's on my bucket list to do, but I've never had the opportunity, which tells you something. So does the fact that it's omitted from the Liber Brevior. But the Church found it important enough for it to have its own liturgy, when the Mass During the Day would also have worked, so I think one should do it at least occasionally.

    How does one have a 90 minute Low Mass? You'd need an hour-long homily, and I'm not even sure that Fr. Philip Wolfe could pull that off.

    We had our organ tuned today, and the older tuner said he'd been brought to our parish as a child, in the 1980s, and his father was offended because the priest zipped through the NO Mass in 20 minutes.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 3,210
    To the omission from the Liber Brevior: the midnight Mass is the first Mass and often the primary parochial Mass by default, but the main Mass and the conventual Mass (although all three were sung by chapters) is the day Mass. It’s why you do the Asperges on Sunday. The dawn Mass follows Prime and is of somewhat lesser importance.
  • OMagnumMysterium
    Posts: 331
    We do the Mass at dawn, although later than 6:00am (the sun doesn't rise that early here in December). So midnight Mass (at midnight, of course), Mass at dawn around 7 or 8, and Christmas day Mass at 10 or 10:30. They work it out somehow, I forget the exact times. And full propers for everything. I want to do Matins too, but last year I only got through two of the Nocturns. If I get a friend to alternate the psalm verses with it will be easier.
    Thanked by 2MatthewRoth tomjaw
  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 606
    We do the Mass at dawn, although later than 6:00am (the sun doesn't rise that early here in December)

    Nor here. Dawn for December 25th is 7:59 am. It does seem rather non-pastoral to have a sung Mass at midnight, which ends at around 2:00 am, and then have another sung Mass four hours later, which means those singing have to basically sleep for 2 hours if they’re lucky, and then come back for another sung Mass for Christmas Day. IMHO, it just seems rather excessive and demanding, especially for volunteers.

    How does one have a 90 minute Low Mass? You'd need an hour-long homily, and I'm not even sure that Fr. Philip Wolfe could pull that off

    I don’t know. The typical weekday low Mass without a sermon or fervorino in our parish is 40 to 45 minutes. The Sunday early morning low Mass used to be approximately an hour. This past Sunday the announcements took at least 5 minutes and the sermon was at least 30 minutes. There was another Mass supposed to start in 20 minutes when Mass finally ended.
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  • RoborgelmeisterRoborgelmeister
    Posts: 307
    I did the three Christmas Masses, Midnight, 9:00 a.m. and 11 a.m. I think only monastics tie in the Dawn mass with the time of Lauds. And isn't that mas supposed to be at the aurora? just before dawn?
  • StimsonInRehabStimsonInRehab
    Posts: 1,961
    At the SSPX seminary in Virginia, the Lux Fulgebit happens around 8 am, and is always chanted by volunteers.
  • FSSPmusic
    Posts: 426
    Is this actually a thing in other Latin Mass communities, or is mine just going into extremes with piety and worship? ... It didn’t used to be like this.
    Many seem to be overdoing things nowadays, trying to replicate the liturgical schedule of a cathedral or shrine rather than a normal preconciliar parish, and in non-territorial parishes where resources are already spread thin, nobody lives close to the church, there's no school attached, and perhaps the facilities are also inadequate (no choir rehearsal room available). Then add a large number of weddings because of an unusually young demographic and the responsibilities of the music department become overwhelming, if not downright unmanageable. We have three Sung Masses for Christmas, but the "Dawn" Mass is later in the morning, usually 8:30 or 9:00.
    Thanked by 1Roborgelmeister
  • GerardH
    Posts: 620
    In cases like the Christmas Dawn Mass and the Rorate Masses, it becomes very obvious that the Roman Rite emerged in the northern hemisphere. Sunrise on Christmas Day here is around 5:45am, and would be an hour earlier if not for daylight saving. I've never heard of anyone doing a Dawn Mass locally
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  • CharlesSA
    Posts: 171
    I get the impression it is very uncommon. However, the FSSP parish I used to sing with always has a sing Dawn Mass, at 8am. It is a schola only Mass; the choir only sings at midnight and day Masses.

    Not even the Benedictine monastery I was with for a while (Clear Creek) sang the Dawn Mass. Which I thought was real unfortunate, though understandable with the fully sung Matins, Midnight Mass, followed by Lauds (followed by private (midnight) Masses.

    I live near St. Marys, and I asked the schola director at the Immaculata (SSPX) if they ever thought of singing the Dawn Mass if they had the volunteers to do it. He said he would be personally supportive of it with the approval of the head pastor, but that for pastoral reasons, didn't think it would ever happen, because it would deprive people who prefer Low Mass of attending a Low Mass on Christmas.

    (Of course I didn't approve of that answer...haha but we don't have to get into that here.)
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,908
    We have had the dawn Mass occasionally, mostly as a low Mass, but many years ago we would sing it in a chapel, and then go straight to our Parish Church to sing the day Mass.
    N.B. EF of course.
    Thanked by 1MatthewRoth
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 3,210
    CharlesSA, I’m sympathetic to your idea, and to the point that Patrick made above…yes, we’re a parish, not a cathedral or collegiate church, which is why I kept benediction instead of the Office of the Dead on Sunday evening (and I know a lot about the sorts of situations about which Patrick is talking, so I am very understanding). But I do like to keep the cathedral spirit in mind…I think that it’s good that most places doing the pre-55 simplify the cathedral/collegiate church rubrics instead of using the Memoriale Rituum which is an impoverished rite.
  • Casavant Organist
    Posts: 815
    Sorry to revive a relatively old discussion here, but I did want to note that is (was?) common by (immemorial?) custom in Canada for the Mass of Dawn to be celebrated immediately after Midnight Mass, so that people who wished to attend all three Masses (or at least two Masses) would not be forced, in very bad weather, to make multiple trips to and from church in the dark. The last few years where I was it was always a Low Mass, and much of our congregation did, in fact, stay. It also gave the choir an easy way to receive Holy Communion, enabling everyone to be in the loft to sing for the entirety of Communion.
    Thanked by 4FSSPmusic Roborgelmeister CHGiffen tomjaw
  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 606
    Sorry to revive a relatively old discussion here, but I did want to note that is (was?) common by (immemorial?) custom in Canada for the Mass of Dawn to be celebrated immediately after Midnight Mass,

    I’m in Canada and have vague memories of hearing the same thing.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 3,210
    Yeah before the council you didn’t distribute at midnight. It’s mentioned in vol. 2 of Stercky. I’m waiting for an appointment and will see later what he says about priests going to the dawn Mass (or saying midnight then dawn having assisted in some manner at midnight: they cannot anticipate that as a private Mass).

    In any case I know that these shepherds’ Masses were a known custom as you note.
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,627
    Fortescue in the 1919 edition OTOH wrote
    People are allowed to receive Holy Communion at the midnight Mass, unless the bishop, for some reason, forbids this. If they do so there is no special rule concerning the Eucharistic fast. so there is no special rule concerning the Eucharistic fast. The common law remains, that they must be fasting from midnight. It is, however, considered respectful not to eat or drink for about two hours before Communion.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 3,210
    Hmm.

    So as to private Masses: they had to be said during the day. Otherwise it was an abuse.

    One chose the Mass that corresponded to the hour if not binating or trinating.

    Communion at midnight required an indult. Stercky cites SRC n. 752, 781,1761, 2267, and 3254. The indult was somewhat generously given apparently.
    Thanked by 1Liam
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