Which Sunday is this in the old calendar?
  • amindthatsuits
    Posts: 886
    Dear all: I am no longer singing a TLM in a parish or shrine when I would normally just do whatever the music director tells me to do. I’m studying on my own. If I look at the divining officium website, it says this is Sunday iii post Pentecost, . If I just go to the Next mass in the Libre, it is the Sunday within the active of the Sacred Heart. However, if I go by the dates in the back of the liner for the Roman calendar, it’s Saints peter and paul, which I would assume would take precedence. The website also says peter and paul
    So which is it? Many thanks, Kenneth.
  • Andrew_Malton
    Posts: 1,215
    Divinum 's ordo has it right, actually: Sts Peter and Paul. With commemorations according to the rubrics.
    Thanked by 2tomjaw amindthatsuits
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,883
    Yep. First class feasts outrank Sundays which are II class (previously semidouble)
    Thanked by 2tomjaw amindthatsuits
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,868
    This is a rather confusing time for those that have various copies of the Liber.

    First Sunday after Pentecost, this Proper Mass has been replaced by Trinity Sunday. The former Sunday Mass (found in the Graduale) is used as the Ferial Mass during the week.

    Second Sunday after Pentecost, this Sunday is also known as the First Sunday after Trinity or Sunday within the Octave of Corpus Christi. The texts in the Roman Missal are identical. This Sunday is in many places an External Solemnity of Corpus Christi.

    Third Sunday after Pentecost, this Sunday is also known as the Second Sunday after Trinity or Sunday within the Octave of the Sacred Heart (Proper texts are Identical). Some places on this day would usually celebrate an External Solemnity of the Sacred Heart. HOWEVER this year it falls on the Feast of Peter and Paul so is outranked.

    N.B. Watch out if you are using older Missals when celebrating the Feast of the Sacred Heart, there are 2 older sets of Propers! All 3 texts and the music can be found here, https://societyofstbede.wordpress.com/2025/06/27/the-feast-of-the-sacred-heart-2/
    Thanked by 5Andrew_Malton WGS amindthatsuits CHGiffen AgnusDei1989
  • Andrew_Malton
    Posts: 1,215
    It may be added that from 1955 (and so in the 1962 Missal) liturgical observation of most of the octaves was abandoned. Thus these two Sundays are not called Sundays in the Octave, in the 1962 Missal, nor in Divinum's (autogenerated) ordo with 1962 rubrics.
    Thanked by 2amindthatsuits tomjaw
  • amindthatsuits
    Posts: 886
    It is not worth extending the discussion, but on divinum officium when you click on the word ordo and it just gives you a list of dates— on the 29th. It says Dom iii post Pentecost. I just checked. But like I said, not worth extending that discussio. It may have gotten changed while I type. in any case, a happy accident. I have no idea about the 1962 missile, although I knew that many octaves had been dropped. I didn’t realize my liber was that old. This is what took me on the journey to find out what’s going on. When you click on the mass for the day , it says peter and paul. The minute I saw that, I just assumed it took precedence, but I’ve also sung at masses where, for some reason the priest did something different than what I could see on any list, which gets back to my original point,. When you are just a member of the choir, you do what you’re told. and when you are the director of the choir, you just do what the priest tells you to do. I once asked a volunteer choir director—very full of himself—-if he had asked the priest before he did something I was pretty sure the priest didn’t want. His answer: “with a nasty snarl: and why would I do that”. Oh maybe because we’re Catholic” I began to drift away from that schola , not too long after



    I’m delighted to discover that there are some more propers to look at, because to work on my sight reading skills I look at music that we normally don’t do so that it isn’t coming back from some distant memory


    Many thanks to all, as usual, And a blessed vigil of the solemnity.


    kenneth
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,868
    Kenneth,
    Tomorrow is the Third Sunday after Pentecost (In some books, Sunday within the Octave of the Sacred Heart) in the Temporal cycle, but we also have a Sanctoral cycle, and on that it is the feast of St Peter and Paul.

    When this happens we need to look at the ranks. As Peter and Paul are first class (double of the 1st Class) they take precedence. But the Sunday will be commemorated at Mass and in the Office.

    The details on Divinum Officium tell us the commemorations that we need to know for Mass and in the Office. N.B. Local calendars are not programmed in, so you will also need to watch for how the local calendar affects the Roman Calendar.

    So while it make look confusing, it is only giving information some of us need to know. The texts of course will be correct for the Roman calendar.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen MatthewRoth
  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 518
    It’s actually the Feast of Sts. Peter and Paul with a commemoration of the 3rd Sunday After Pentecost.
  • amindthatsuits
    Posts: 886
    Thank you tomjaw This is I’m afraid where I get confused and it is very accurate to say that it is “what some of us need to know. “I know a great deal about Gregorian chant, the music, and I have studied the catechism and various encyclicals on the mass. Theology and doctrine. But I don’t consider the ranks and everything important information for the average person to know, indeed it isreally for academics and for liturgists, or priests, anyone with responsibility for working with others”

    But it is one of those things that I intended to be a little bit better versed in , so perhaps I will add that to the list for the summer. However, as a practical matter —I erased


    what an engineering professor told my father and he passed on to me: don’t memorize what you can look up.”

    Thanks very much, this is actually very helpful, we ended the school year yesterday at my high school and I canceled singing even the very simple music at my parish tomorrow morning, because I find I can hardly move. “It’s something about not having things hanging over your head


    Peace

    Kenneth.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • WGS
    Posts: 304
    Our parish bulletin shows Ss. Peter & Paul for tomorrow, and I'm sure that's what it will be for the 8:30 and the 11:00 high Mass. However, I won't be surprised if it's the Third Sunday after Pentecost for the 1:30 afternoon Mass. I'll keep a lookout for the color of the Tabernacle veil and keep my ears open for the first words of the Introit.
    Thanked by 1amindthatsuits
  • francis
    Posts: 11,068
    In my calendar is:
    3F07B2EA-D872-4E70-8886-D879C6D63633.jpeg
    960 x 778 - 178K
    Thanked by 2amindthatsuits tomjaw
  • amindthatsuits
    Posts: 886
    I know answers on this site could go on, but I thought this is one of those things that could be resolved fairly easily, but apparently not. Anyway, thank you all and have a blessed Sunday.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,883
    However, I won't be surprised if it's the Third Sunday after Pentecost for the 1:30 afternoon Mass


    There’s no way that they can be so dense as to miss that one of the great feasts of the sanctoral cycle outranks an ordinary Sunday, right?
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
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